Related recent discussion: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27724699
San Francisco Organized Shoplifting Surge Prompts Target to Cut Operating Hours
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Re: San Francisco Organized Shoplifting Surge Prompts Target to Cut Operating Hours
#12My gut feeling is that this post is going to be flagged very quickly. It's one of the issues that is dividing America right now and there is no chance a consensus is going to be reached during a discussion on HN. Even though this particular event is new, the phenomenon itself is not, and so far nobody has found a good solution.
I agree that it's probably going to get flagged, but unjust flaggings can be undone by the site's moderators. I have found them to be surprisingly quick to respond via email, even during weekends. The email address can be found at the bottom of this page.
Re: San Francisco Organized Shoplifting Surge Prompts Target to Cut Operating Hours
#13My gut feeling is that this post is going to be flagged very quickly. It's one of the issues that is dividing America right now and there is no chance a consensus is going to be reached during a discussion on HN. Even though this particular event is new, the phenomenon itself is not, and so far nobody has found a good solution.
You are correct. There is not a political solution to this problem.
Is enforcing laws not a political solution?
Edit: No responses, just moderation. It is a political solution, like I thought.
Re: San Francisco Organized Shoplifting Surge Prompts Target to Cut Operating Hours
#14Non-American resident: what’s going on in SF? Is the crime rate really so high, and racing up? And if so, why?
Yes it is that high. A lot of it is also unreported just because it is everywhere, and people have grown numb to it - especially because the city is not doing anything about it. Public defecation, open drug abuse, littering, car break-ins, burglaries of private homes, looting of stores, and so on are rampant. I would say crime that results in physical bodily harm is not as pronounced but other crimes are rampant.
In my opinion it is the result of public policies that view criminals as victims and aims to be soft on them, viewing that as a path to reduced recidivism. However in practice it is simply inducing a significant increase in crime because the deterrents to crime (arrests, charges, fines, jail time) are removed.
I wrote more about this in a different discussion if you're interested: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27726777
Re: San Francisco Organized Shoplifting Surge Prompts Target to Cut Operating Hours
#15My gut feeling is that this post is going to be flagged very quickly. It's one of the issues that is dividing America right now and there is no chance a consensus is going to be reached during a discussion on HN. Even though this particular event is new, the phenomenon itself is not, and so far nobody has found a good solution.
I'm not sure I understand. How is the rampant crime wave in SF a matter that divides people? I don't think there's a significant amount of Americans who believe that shoplifting is acceptable, is there?
Re: San Francisco Organized Shoplifting Surge Prompts Target to Cut Operating Hours
#16The basic premise of the state is that it exists to protect life & property. The past 18 months have shown that the state will do neither if it doesn't feel like it. But you had better keep paying those taxes, because reasons.
> The basic premise of the state is that it exists to protect life & property.
Citation Needed
Re: San Francisco Organized Shoplifting Surge Prompts Target to Cut Operating Hours
#17Prop 47 and SF's "criminals are oppressed by society" approach to crime are to blame here. You can't get the grunts to roll on the bosses if all you can charge them with is a misdemeanor, and you can't get police to even arrest thieves if the DA refuses to prosecute. This doesn't happen in other big cities like NYC, Boston, Chicago, etc.
It's unbelievable the amount of depravity a single DA can inflict. An unprecedented number of companies and workers are fleeing the city. San Francisco is set to become the next Detroit. What's your exit plan?
Re: San Francisco Organized Shoplifting Surge Prompts Target to Cut Operating Hours
#18Prop 47 and SF's "criminals are oppressed by society" approach to crime are to blame here. You can't get the grunts to roll on the bosses if all you can charge them with is a misdemeanor, and you can't get police to even arrest thieves if the DA refuses to prosecute. This doesn't happen in other big cities like NYC, Boston, Chicago, etc.
There’s a really weird political element in San Francisco which claims this reporting is all a conspiracy. While it’s true the violent crime coverage has been misleading, there has been an unprecedented normalisation of all manner of property crimes in a way that, to this New Yorker, is shocking in its banality. That dismissal of criticism as a conspiracy is thwarting civic discussion on this trend.
The unfortunate effect of this is it’s setting back reasonable police reform movements in other major cities by a decade or more.
Re: San Francisco Organized Shoplifting Surge Prompts Target to Cut Operating Hours
#19Prop 47 and SF's "criminals are oppressed by society" approach to crime are to blame here. You can't get the grunts to roll on the bosses if all you can charge them with is a misdemeanor, and you can't get police to even arrest thieves if the DA refuses to prosecute. This doesn't happen in other big cities like NYC, Boston, Chicago, etc.
It's unbelievable the amount of depravity a single DA can inflict. An unprecedented number of companies and workers are fleeing the city. San Francisco is set to become the next Detroit. What's your exit plan?
> San Francisco is set to become the next Detroit
This is hyperbole. The Bay Area remains an economic dynamo. San Francisco’s culinary and cultural credentials remain largely untouched. It’s a safe city to be rich around, and that will continue to be the case for the near future.
The distinction important. Threatening the city’s economic elite with ruin is a red herring. Contrast that with Detroit, where the city’s economic elite were directly threatened. That threat forced change, by changing opinions and replacing decision makers. That pressure has been inhibited in San Francisco by its continuing ability to generate wealth independent of its problems.
Re: San Francisco Organized Shoplifting Surge Prompts Target to Cut Operating Hours
#20My gut feeling is that this post is going to be flagged very quickly. It's one of the issues that is dividing America right now and there is no chance a consensus is going to be reached during a discussion on HN. Even though this particular event is new, the phenomenon itself is not, and so far nobody has found a good solution.
I'm not sure I understand. How is the rampant crime wave in SF a matter that divides people? I don't think there's a significant amount of Americans who believe that shoplifting is acceptable, is there?
You'd be surprised if you've ever talked to any left-wing (and I mean actually left-wing, not what Fox News calls left-wing) people. To shoplift from big stores is to "fight the corporate power". This demographic is particularly pronounced in the Bay Area. My personal experience has been that most of them also came from fairly wealthy families and have never experienced actual crime.