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Soviet Venus Images (2004)

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Re: Soviet Venus Images (2004)

#81

Post by areoform »

cletus wrote: post #15

It's wild we have any images of the surface of Venus at all given how hostile Venus is. Given how hostile it is, it seems unlikely we'll go back anytime soon. These images were really a product of the Cold War where the US focused on Mars. It's worth noting that Venus is still probably a better terraforming target than Mars [1]. This romantic notion of Mars has rooted itself deeply at this point (eg with Elon Musk) b…

> Given how hostile it is, it seems unlikely we'll go back anytime soon

You're going to be really happy about this then.

We're going back to Venus!

NASA just chose VERITAS and DAVINCI+ as a one-two-punch combo for Venus.

Just in case you aren't familiar with the missions,

One is a descent probe + communications relay (DAVINCI+) that is supposed to last 63 minutes from the top of the atmosphere to the bottom, and bring modern spectroscopy + imaging to bear on the atmosphere. They particularly want to investigate trace gas elements and the presence of organic compounds in the atmosphere. As it descends, the probe will also be taking high resolution snap shots of the tessera with a modern-ish (emphasis on the ish) camera right up until it is destroyed.

The other one is an orbiter with the goal of making the highest resolution map of Venus possible. And acting as the basis for future missions. They'd also like to monitor the atmosphere to characterize any variations such as the surface emitting water (could there be underground water on Venus? Probably not, but who knows?)

Based on overheard watercooler chatter, it appears that one of the concerns that drove NASA to give both Discovery slots to Venus missions is because of the potential loss of institutional knowledge. The people who helped build and run Magellan are retiring, and we haven't sent anything there since. It's important to capture their information and train the next generation on Venus so that we don't lose hard earned lessons.

IMO, Venus is a really important planet to study because it helped us to understand global warming and planetary dynamics. A better understanding of Venus means refinements to our atmospheric models for climate change.

It's more important than Mars, potential for life or not.

Re: Soviet Venus Images (2004)

#82

Post by DuskStar »

at_compile_time wrote: post #66
generalizations wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It's worth noting that Venus is still probably a better terraforming target than Mars [1]. This romantic notion of Mars has rooted itself deeply at this point (eg with Elon Musk) but Mars is basically a more distant and inconvenient Moon. There's a distinction there worth pointing out. We can actually land on Mars, and if something goes wrong there are options (Apollo 13 style). If something goes wrong on Venus, yo…

> Might be worth just dropping some hardy lichen on Venus to get the process started, because no one is going to go there as-is. Hardy is an understatement. Life would need an entirely different chemistry to function at 730K.

Presumsbly, you'd start in the upper atmosphere and work down. Airborne equivalents to algae?

Re: Soviet Venus Images (2004)

#83

Post by _Microft »

eloff wrote: post #33
cletus wrote: post #15

It's wild we have any images of the surface of Venus at all given how hostile Venus is. Given how hostile it is, it seems unlikely we'll go back anytime soon. These images were really a product of the Cold War where the US focused on Mars. It's worth noting that Venus is still probably a better terraforming target than Mars [1]. This romantic notion of Mars has rooted itself deeply at this point (eg with Elon Musk) b…

Also while life on the surface of Venus is extremely hostile, it's possible to build floating stations in the atmosphere because it's so much more dense than earth's. High enough in the atmosphere the pressures, temperatures, and solar radiation would be reasonable. It's harder than floating a ship on water, but easier than doing airships on earth. I'm not sure what that gains us over just having a habitat in orbit t…

> Colonizing other planets doesn't make much sense to begin with yet. We don't even colonize Antarctica, and it's a paradise compared to mars.

The unique characteristic of a colony on Mars, Venus or another planet would be that it is not on planet Earth. Antarctica on the other hand has to compete with all the places on Earth that are a lot nicer.

Re: Soviet Venus Images (2004)

#84

Post by wnscooke »

belter wrote: post #64
_Microft wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is off-topic but I think I can help. Some languages, like (European) French, put spaces before question marks[0] and exclamation marks[1] and people might be so used to doing it that they even do it when writing in a different language. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Question_mark#Stylistic_varian... [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Exclamation_mark#French

Indeed. Thanks _Microft :-) As you you might have guessed English is not my native language.

The answer was good, but just to clarify a touch more... The software inserts the space, not the French speaker. I teach in a university in France and repeatedly instructed students to stop typing that space until a few told me they literally can't unless they switch languages in Word.

Re: Soviet Venus Images (2004)

#85

Post by dylan604 »

cletus wrote: post #15

It's wild we have any images of the surface of Venus at all given how hostile Venus is. Given how hostile it is, it seems unlikely we'll go back anytime soon. These images were really a product of the Cold War where the US focused on Mars. It's worth noting that Venus is still probably a better terraforming target than Mars [1]. This romantic notion of Mars has rooted itself deeply at this point (eg with Elon Musk) b…

>It's worth noting that Venus is still probably a better terraforming target than Mars

This has always been my sentiment as well. Mars is a dead planet with no magnetic belts for shielding, and is just too far on the edge of the goldilocks zone. Also, if we can figure out how to terraform Venus' atmosphere, then maybe we can "fix" Earth's.

Re: Soviet Venus Images (2004)

#86

Post by swatkat »

cletus wrote: post #15

It's wild we have any images of the surface of Venus at all given how hostile Venus is. Given how hostile it is, it seems unlikely we'll go back anytime soon. These images were really a product of the Cold War where the US focused on Mars. It's worth noting that Venus is still probably a better terraforming target than Mars [1]. This romantic notion of Mars has rooted itself deeply at this point (eg with Elon Musk) b…

Indian space agency, ISRO, is planning for a Venus mission in 2026: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shukrayaan-1

Re: Soviet Venus Images (2004)

#87

Post by [deleted] »

wnscooke wrote: post #84
belter wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Indeed. Thanks _Microft :-) As you you might have guessed English is not my native language.

The answer was good, but just to clarify a touch more... The software inserts the space, not the French speaker. I teach in a university in France and repeatedly instructed students to stop typing that space until a few told me they literally can't unless they switch languages in Word.

[deleted]

Re: Soviet Venus Images (2004)

#89

Post by cletus »

areoform wrote: post #81
cletus wrote: post #15

It's wild we have any images of the surface of Venus at all given how hostile Venus is. Given how hostile it is, it seems unlikely we'll go back anytime soon. These images were really a product of the Cold War where the US focused on Mars. It's worth noting that Venus is still probably a better terraforming target than Mars [1]. This romantic notion of Mars has rooted itself deeply at this point (eg with Elon Musk) b…

> Given how hostile it is, it seems unlikely we'll go back anytime soon You're going to be really happy about this then. We're going back to Venus! NASA just chose VERITAS and DAVINCI+ as a one-two-punch combo for Venus. Just in case you aren't familiar with the missions, One is a descent probe + communications relay (DAVINCI+) that is supposed to last 63 minutes from the top of the atmosphere to the bottom, and brin…

Yeah, I’d heard about these missions. One has a descent probe but I believe it’s atmospheric, not surface like the Venera missions, right? Still cool though.

What I personally want to see in my lifetime is a return to Neptune and Uranus. I don’t believe we’ve been to either since Voyager. Given such a mission takes the right planetary alignment, a decade of prep and still a decade to get there this will take awhile.

The Venus missions actually make either icy giant missions less likely, sadly. Outer planet missions are super expensive and the next launch window is in the early 2030s so time is actually running out.

Re: Soviet Venus Images (2004)

#90

Post by datameta »

technologia wrote: post #24
cletus wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If we're talking about what humanity's future off Earth might look like, it's actually highly unlikely that it's on planets at all, given how hostile such places are, the huge energy costs of entering and leaving gravity wells and how inefficient planets are at creating living area per unit mass. Orbital habitats using spin gravity seem way more likely with places like the Moon and Mercury being the source for the re…

Suddenly not so much Star Wars as much as it is Gundam :p

Or Culture series :)
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