Digital Violence: How the NSO Group Enables State Terror • Hacker News Board

Re: Digital Violence: How the NSO Group Enables State Terror

#21

Post by 2Gkashmiri » Sun, Jul 04, 2021, 6:06 PM UTC

baybal2 wrote: post #19

2Gkashmiri wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

it happens. i have people tell me "why not use a vpn". https://scroll.in/article/952355/vpn-for-terrorism-in-kashmi... https://www.reuters.com/article/us-india-kashmir-internet-id... i have friends who have been pulled from a public bus, their phones checked and one guy was beaten for having a vpn app and another one was forced to show his whatsapp when they proceeded to beat him for having "incendiary content". basi…

How active is the armed resistance in Srinagar today?

nah. its not even clear these days. people disappear and next time they are "killed in an encounter". https://thekashmirwalla.com/2021/07/in-kulgam-gunfight-famil...

just a few days ago this kid was killed, heck his throat was first slit. the police say he joined militancy on 18th june but locals say he played cricket and scored runs on 28th of june so who knows.

then you have multiple times when the army and the police was found to have conducted fake encounters where they killed innocent civilians in the name of getting prize money.

few week ago there was the grenade attack in srinagar but that was immediately after the all party meeting with the drone attack that caused another stir.locals belive these are diversionary tactics.

Re: Digital Violence: How the NSO Group Enables State Terror

#22

Post by Metacelsus » Sun, Jul 04, 2021, 6:06 PM UTC

jeroenhd wrote: post #18

I couldn't read the article because I can only see a loading bar. This is the sad state of the web today

Same here.

Re: Digital Violence: How the NSO Group Enables State Terror

#23

Post by sloshnmosh » Sun, Jul 04, 2021, 7:00 PM UTC

izac wrote: post #7

The investigation on Forensic Architecture's page can be found here: https://forensic-architecture.org/investigation/digital-viol... The website features a platform for exploring over 1,000 "NSO-related activities, and demonstrates new connections and patterns between ‘digital violence’ using Pegasus and real-world violence directed at lawyers, activists, and other civil society figures": https://www.digitalviolence.…

No kidding. I’m not enabling JavaScript to view some random website.

Especially if it mentions NSO Grouo!

Re: Digital Violence: How the NSO Group Enables State Terror

#24

Post by sloshnmosh » Sun, Jul 04, 2021, 7:13 PM UTC

I uploaded the url to “urlscan(.)io” and it STILL doesn’t load.

I’m examining the scripts now.

However, there is a blob of JavaScript that doesn’t load into urlscan. Highly suspect.

Is this some watering hole?

Re: Digital Violence: How the NSO Group Enables State Terror

#25

Post by aritmo » Sun, Jul 04, 2021, 7:25 PM UTC

sloshnmosh wrote: post #23

izac wrote: post #7

The investigation on Forensic Architecture's page can be found here: https://forensic-architecture.org/investigation/digital-viol... The website features a platform for exploring over 1,000 "NSO-related activities, and demonstrates new connections and patterns between ‘digital violence’ using Pegasus and real-world violence directed at lawyers, activists, and other civil society figures": https://www.digitalviolence.…

No kidding. I’m not enabling JavaScript to view some random website. Especially if it mentions NSO Grouo!

You realize that 1) the website is critical to the NSO group, and 2) you can have more than one separate/independent browser session on your computer to browser stuff on your computer?

Re: Digital Violence: How the NSO Group Enables State Terror

#26

Post by sloshnmosh » Sun, Jul 04, 2021, 7:42 PM UTC

aritmo wrote: post #25

sloshnmosh wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No kidding. I’m not enabling JavaScript to view some random website. Especially if it mentions NSO Grouo!

You realize that 1) the website is critical to the NSO group, and 2) you can have more than one separate/independent browser session on your computer to browser stuff on your computer?

That is exactly how watering-hole websites work, they create a site critical of the attacker.

Re: Digital Violence: How the NSO Group Enables State Terror

#27

Post by stevehawk » Sun, Jul 04, 2021, 7:47 PM UTC

why is this guy whispering through the entire video. if i turn it up so i can hear him then all is the other people are on blast

Re: Digital Violence: How the NSO Group Enables State Terror

#28

Post by bopbeepboop » Sun, Jul 04, 2021, 8:13 PM UTC

sloshnmosh wrote: post #24

I uploaded the url to “urlscan(.)io” and it STILL doesn’t load. I’m examining the scripts now. However, there is a blob of JavaScript that doesn’t load into urlscan. Highly suspect. Is this some watering hole?

I appreciate you examining this.

I refused to click the link, seeing all the comments about a JS heavy website that was making fans spin, talking about NSO.

Checking the WHOIS shows a 2 week old domain owned by a masked entity.

- - -

Registry Expiration: 2022-06-14 10:48:17 UTC Updated: 2021-06-15 23:38:22 UTC Created: 2021-06-14 10:48:17 UTC

Name: Contact Privacy Inc. Customer 0161891249

Re: Digital Violence: How the NSO Group Enables State Terror

#29

Post by visualradio » Sun, Jul 04, 2021, 9:25 PM UTC

motohagiography wrote: post #13

Have said before that the economics for companies like NSO are favorable because countries and regimes with resource wealth, who do not need to maintain a sophisticated civil service to stay in power, need the technical capability that such a platform provides. Companies like this provide that. It's a domestic spy agency as a service. Awful? Absolutely, but I'd argue these objections reduce to "interception capabilit…

The concern is likely over whether supply creates its own demand. In other words will the commodification of state surveillance technology encourage suppliers to manipulate the environment to create more purchasers in a manner that transcends the original limited desire of host republics to defend residents from domination. In other words will the actions taken in pursuit of a mission lead to outcomes in conflict with the original mission.

Re: Digital Violence: How the NSO Group Enables State Terror

#30

Post by motohagiography » Mon, Jul 05, 2021, 1:07 AM UTC

visualradio wrote: post #29

motohagiography wrote: post #13

Have said before that the economics for companies like NSO are favorable because countries and regimes with resource wealth, who do not need to maintain a sophisticated civil service to stay in power, need the technical capability that such a platform provides. Companies like this provide that. It's a domestic spy agency as a service. Awful? Absolutely, but I'd argue these objections reduce to "interception capabilit…

The concern is likely over whether supply creates its own demand. In other words will the commodification of state surveillance technology encourage suppliers to manipulate the environment to create more purchasers in a manner that transcends the original limited desire of host republics to defend residents from domination. In other words will the actions taken in pursuit of a mission lead to outcomes in conflict wit…

It's a fair view, as we bring these things into being. "What was once thought cannot be unthought," sort of thing, and having a tech at all means the economics of using it for evil itself becomes viable. The argument back is, "if it wasn't us, it would be someone else who did it," which is a self justifying slippery slope, and then we get into the conflict between the ideal of not doing evil vs. doing it first so nobody can do it to you, and being good is meaningless if you are dead or don't prevail to preserve it.

I genuinely believe (perhaps naively) that there are good people, and we do crafty things to pursue our interests, but we punch the clock out at some point and respect that the battle of our conflicting interests must cease so we can return to being people. This is predicated on the idea that we are just humans recognizing we are dealing with other humans, and we will find an equillibrium of interests at some point. Where that breaks down is when we lose sight of that and just start to exterminate each other for its own sake by all deceptive and mendacious means necessary. For that you have to give up your own humanity first. Maybe that view is as quaint as the famously naive "gentlemen do not read each others' mail," statement, but without some guiding humanity, we might as well just use biological warfare because the only thing stopping using that is polite convention. Some rulers have been content to rule over slaves and disposable subjugated automatons reduced to living like animals, but their ambition is meaningless and unsatisfying because without some assent, they do not rule over people. When you have subjugated a people, the only solution is to find more people to subjugate. It's on everyone else to engage in total war to prevent that from happening, imo.

That's a big philosophical hope statement, but in terms of the ethics of building these tools, the truly evil empires have their own infrastructure, and don't need tools like those made by the NSO's of the world. Globally, and species wise, NSO's clients aren't the problem.