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Why My Father Hated India

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Re: Why My Father Hated India

#21

Post by dimmuborgir »

vamsee wrote: post #12
product50 wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It doesn't get upvoted and be featured on the top page of Hacker News if people are not finding it useful. Hacker News is not a website to be defined by you on what is interesting and what is relevant. You are just one of thousands of people visiting this site and it will stay like that - if you find that non-interesting, it is irrelevant.

Oh, why the venom? I'm an Indian, and I personally found it interesting (though it tells me nothing new) but I find it irrelevant to what HN is. Like I mentioned in the reply above, geo-political news is irrelevant to HN discussion unless it has a direct bearing upon startups/programming. I miss the link here.

I don't see what the fuss is about. A lot of seemingly offtopics have been discussed on HN recently. Like, Japan earthquakes, Osama Bin Laden death, Egypt/Libya civil wars etc.

Re: Why My Father Hated India

#22

Post by dimmuborgir »

qasar wrote: post #20
aniket_ray wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Could you cite something about your assertion that Indian Muslims have had a raw deal? I have only one data point Azim Premji, who is one of the richest Indians and is a Muslim. I've heard that in some rural areas, banks do give loans on religious lines i.e. Banks in some muslim predominant areas only give loans to muslims and in some Hindu predominant areas to only hindus. Though I heard that the government is tryin…

Its only anecdotal, my brother in law is an Indian Muslim from UP. He says the 1-2 blow of being a communal society and being the largest minority doesn't create the best situation. Minorities getting the short end of the stick in terms of education and opportunities isn't exclusive to India (see the US - arguably the best nation on the planet for minorities that still stuggles with this), its just a more central top…

Except politically and militarily, Indian Muslims have outperformed Pakistani/Bangladeshi Muslims in all fields. Just take as fundamental as literacy rate. Indian Muslims have better literacy rate (59%) than Pakistani Muslims (50-55%).

Re: Why My Father Hated India

#23

Post by kloncks »

jkic47 wrote: post #9

The article was unexpectedly heart wrenching to read. India takes its very name from the Indus valley that lies in Pakistan, while the most famous example of Islamic architecture is the Taj Mahal in India. It is sad watching the two countries' governments waste time, energy and lives in a conflict that is essentially at a stalemate.

Absolutely agree. Too many conflicts come from sides that focus on their few differences rather than their many similarities.

This is coming from an Egyptian who realizes that Israelis (and Jews) aren't so different from my Arab Muslim self.

Now, if only more people agreed.

Re: Why My Father Hated India

#24

Post by burgerbrain »

dimmuborgir wrote: post #21
vamsee wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Oh, why the venom? I'm an Indian, and I personally found it interesting (though it tells me nothing new) but I find it irrelevant to what HN is. Like I mentioned in the reply above, geo-political news is irrelevant to HN discussion unless it has a direct bearing upon startups/programming. I miss the link here.

I don't see what the fuss is about. A lot of seemingly offtopics have been discussed on HN recently. Like, Japan earthquakes, Osama Bin Laden death, Egypt/Libya civil wars etc.

Yes, that is why the fuss. Some of us do not appreciate the trend.

Re: Why My Father Hated India

#25

Post by yummyfajitas »

aniket_ray wrote: post #17
qasar wrote: post #15

Being a Pakistani (and Punjabi) American myself, I do not agree with some of the views the author puts forward. First, Pakistanis do define themselves primarily as 'non-Indians'. However, the view that Pakistan has somehow carved out a new identity is the past 60 years is false. 5,000 years of shared heredity, language, customs and political history don't shake off that easily. Even Pakistanis and their relationship…

Could you cite something about your assertion that Indian Muslims have had a raw deal? I have only one data point Azim Premji, who is one of the richest Indians and is a Muslim. I've heard that in some rural areas, banks do give loans on religious lines i.e. Banks in some muslim predominant areas only give loans to muslims and in some Hindu predominant areas to only hindus. Though I heard that the government is tryin…

I'm just a visitor here, but I can believe that Indian Muslims may have a raw deal in some areas.

In professional Mumbai or Delhi society, no one seems to care much. You are a banker, a lawyer or a programmer. For the most part, you get your job or start your business via your own professional connections. Personal and professional life is separated very much like it is in the west.

Outside of this fairly narrow circle, family/family friends/clannish identity is more or less merged with your professional identity. Want to start a business? There is a good chance you share a last name with your investors and business partners. Want a bank loan? Better be connected to the loan officer. It's also helpful if you are connected to the various government workers who's permission you will need to start your business [1], and you'll get better service if your supplier is your second cousin.

The value of your network is a superlinear function of it's size. If Muslims have a smaller network, they are probably disadvantaged.

[1] I recently met a guy who wanted to start a business selling eye tracking devices. He scrapped the idea because he needed 34 licenses.

Re: Why My Father Hated India

#26

Post by badclient »

qasar wrote: post #20
aniket_ray wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Could you cite something about your assertion that Indian Muslims have had a raw deal? I have only one data point Azim Premji, who is one of the richest Indians and is a Muslim. I've heard that in some rural areas, banks do give loans on religious lines i.e. Banks in some muslim predominant areas only give loans to muslims and in some Hindu predominant areas to only hindus. Though I heard that the government is tryin…

Its only anecdotal, my brother in law is an Indian Muslim from UP. He says the 1-2 blow of being a communal society and being the largest minority doesn't create the best situation. Minorities getting the short end of the stick in terms of education and opportunities isn't exclusive to India (see the US - arguably the best nation on the planet for minorities that still stuggles with this), its just a more central top…

If you want to go on anecdotes, my larger fam is happily Indian(from UP even) and Muslim.

Sure there is crazy poverty across India but I haven't seen anything that shows it being greater because of a larger conspiracy against Muslims in India.

Over the years, I've observed more and more of my Pakistani friends sound hopeless when speaking about their country. This is a distinct change from a few years ago when they would speak with nothing but pride.

It's humbling and sad to look at the state of Pakistan as an outsider.

Re: Why My Father Hated India

#28

Post by dimmuborgir »

qasar wrote: post #15

Being a Pakistani (and Punjabi) American myself, I do not agree with some of the views the author puts forward. First, Pakistanis do define themselves primarily as 'non-Indians'. However, the view that Pakistan has somehow carved out a new identity is the past 60 years is false. 5,000 years of shared heredity, language, customs and political history don't shake off that easily. Even Pakistanis and their relationship…

1. You seem to be one of those few liberal/secular Pakistanis living abroad. A vast majority of Pakistanis, in the attempt to justify the existence of their country, try everything to distance themselves from India, Indian culture and Indian history.

2. Agreed that there was mass migration both ways. But consider these things. Islam is the fastest growing religion in India and Muslims make up ~15% of Indian population today, whereas in Pakistan minority population has fallen from ~15% to less than ~2% since independence.

3. Predicted correctly? How do you prove that Indian Muslims are living worse than Pakistanis? A couple of communal riots in India don't prove anything, considering how big India is. Whereas, the daily bombings, drone attacks, ethnic riots in Pakistan don't give encouraging picture about Pakistani Muslims, the very bunch for whom the country was created.

And as I said in another comment below: "Except politically and militarily, Indian Muslims have outperformed Pakistani/Bangladeshi Muslims in all fields. Just take as fundamental as literacy rate. Indian Muslims have better literacy rate (59%) than Pakistani Muslims (50-55%)." To add to that, the richest Muslim in the world is Ajim Premji, an Indian software mogul, not some oil sheikh.

Re: Why My Father Hated India

#30

Post by wisty »

Zarar wrote: post #29

The author had daddy issues. BTW, what is this article even doing on HN? My take: Kashmir == root cause. Fix that first, grant independence.

People don't question 2 or 3 China articles a day. It's refreshing to see something written about another big developing country or (in this case, two).
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