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70% of San Francisco residents say quality of life has declined: poll

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Re: 70% of San Francisco residents say quality of life has declined: poll

#141

Post by [deleted] »

chrisseaton wrote: post #120
alexjplant wrote: post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> My logic is 'crossing the road is completely reasonable, doesn't harm anyone, people should be allowed to get to the other side of the road'. That logic doesn't follow to speeding, which is dangerous and selfish. Putting oneself in the path of a multi-ton vehicle that doesn't expect you to be there and placing the onus on them to avoid committing vehicular manslaughter when you could use a space explicitly designat…

Why is your default that the road belongs to the car in the first place? Why should people need to stick to limited spaces 'designated' for them? How do you think we manage it in the UK without these laws and why do you think our road-death rate is lower?

[deleted]

Re: 70% of San Francisco residents say quality of life has declined: poll

#142

Post by ceejayoz »

throwaway316943 wrote: post #139
ceejayoz wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Those things are, to at least some extent, caused by the things the artist is advocating doing a better job of fixing. The whole point of the cartoon is that tackling the underlying causes of such issues might make them easier to fix.

I agree that addressing underlying causes would reduce those problems but it would take decades even if we went all in on fixing those things. What exactly do we do about them in the mean time?

Well, that's why the slogan's not "defund the police immediately", I guess.

That it'd take a while to make significant progress isn't a reason not to start.

Re: 70% of San Francisco residents say quality of life has declined: poll

#143

Post by jboy55 »

hourislate wrote: post #60
bink wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This problem existed well before 2019.

It got way worse since 2019

And it was way worse before 1999. In California the rate of violent crime was 3X in 1992 than it is now.

Re: 70% of San Francisco residents say quality of life has declined: poll

#144

Post by jboy55 »

desine wrote: post #117
jboy55 wrote: post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Its funny, the comment adjacent to yours is one where Krakow Poland is shown as a paradise compared to SF. So please, go over to that thread and tell them how safer Krakow could be with unlimited guns, a insane war on drugs and the removal of their welfare system.

There's other differences between Poland and the United States, but only some of them are things you can vote on.

I think that's a dog whistle, but please enumerate them.

Re: 70% of San Francisco residents say quality of life has declined: poll

#145

Post by desine »

tootie wrote: post #121
desine wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't feel the need to deport illegal immigrants who don't commit violent crime. However SF doesn't allow ICE to arrest/serve warrants, even if the person in question has drug charges, violent crime charges, etc. In a city that clearly has taxpaying residents unhappy with the level of crime, they're throwing away free federal resources to deal with those issues. Even if it's not a driving factor, it's a symptom of…

AFAIK they do allow enforcement of criminal warrants for anything violent. They also don't and can't prevent federal agents from doing anything. They just don't actively cooperate or enforce immigration law with their own police. Also worth noting that they adopted sanctuary status in 1989 which preceded their massive rise in prosperity. It seems unlikely to be a factor in problems of the last 5 years.

News article: https://dailycaller.com/2020/02/19/san-francisco-not-coopera...

The city has a "rapid response" hotline you can call if you see any ICE agents in the city. I'm not sure what their response is. But they definitely don't work with the agency

Re: 70% of San Francisco residents say quality of life has declined: poll

#146

Post by astrange »

ceejayoz wrote: post #129
astrange wrote: post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is "half those things are done under the police department". Defunding the police department would prevent this. If you want to hire social workers, which is a good idea, say that instead.

You should look in to the defund proposals, then, because that's what they're typically advocating; moving these responsibilities (and their funding) out of the police department. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Defund_the_police > "Defund the police" is a slogan that supports divesting funds from police departments and reallocating them to non-policing forms of public safety and community support , such as social serv…

I have, which is why I already responded to this with "reducing police funding won't lead to money going to those other places".

"Education" is a trick because the same taxes don't fund police (cities) and education (school districts). Making one go down wouldn't cause the other to go up, or even increase voter support for it.

Re: 70% of San Francisco residents say quality of life has declined: poll

#147

Post by true_religion »

chrisseaton wrote: post #120
alexjplant wrote: post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> My logic is 'crossing the road is completely reasonable, doesn't harm anyone, people should be allowed to get to the other side of the road'. That logic doesn't follow to speeding, which is dangerous and selfish. Putting oneself in the path of a multi-ton vehicle that doesn't expect you to be there and placing the onus on them to avoid committing vehicular manslaughter when you could use a space explicitly designat…

Why is your default that the road belongs to the car in the first place? Why should people need to stick to limited spaces 'designated' for them? How do you think we manage it in the UK without these laws and why do you think our road-death rate is lower?

Cars aren’t fully autonomous yet. There are people in those cars who have just as much right to tax payer funded roads while in a car as they do on their feet.

The deciding factor should be if the law contributes to civil order, or reduces injury.

Re: 70% of San Francisco residents say quality of life has declined: poll

#148

Post by mwkaufma »

AnimalMuppet wrote: post #5
mwkaufma wrote: post #3

Manufactured consent.

Could you be a bit more specific about what you mean? By itself, that drive-by comment doesn't tell us much...

There is no rise in crime, but people polled say they believe there is. It's a textbook case of Chomsky's manufactured consent phenomena. It's not a drive-by comment, it's simply concise.

Re: 70% of San Francisco residents say quality of life has declined: poll

#149

Post by dougmwne »

youmustbeblind wrote: post #114
dougmwne wrote: post #44

I am currently in Warsaw. I have lived in SF. The quality of life is astoundingly different. There nearly zero visible homelessness people. There are low levels of crime and none visible. There are hardly any murders or gun crime. Not much property crime. There are quite a lot of police, but no brutality that I have heard of. I feel safe walking around at night. People have health care, higher education, and employee…

Love Warsaw but suspect your in $1000/mo+ Airbnb, alcohol abuse amongst the homeless in Warsaw is massive, and thus aggressive begging, everything else you say is correct, but your in a 2km bubble and Warsaw is a big city, even a walk to googles free coworking space will be enlightening for you (it will put you marginally outside the comfort zone briefly if you walk the quickest path over the bridge, then loop back i…

I am a block away from it in Praga. There are a handful of drunks, but I understand this is the worst area of the city, but I was interested in getting to know the other side of the Vistula. I haven't seen any rough sleeping or open air drug use near me. Very little public drinking over here (unlike all the students on the other side of the river). Praga has nothing on the Tenderloin.

Elsewhere in the city, I saw pushy begging exactly once when entering the Old Town. There were about 6 rough sleepers under one of the Vistula bridges with neatly folded sleeping bags and they are being guarded by a police van.

If there's a homeless tent city of heroin addicts around here, do tell.

Re: 70% of San Francisco residents say quality of life has declined: poll

#150

Post by ceejayoz »

astrange wrote: post #146
ceejayoz wrote: post #129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You should look in to the defund proposals, then, because that's what they're typically advocating; moving these responsibilities (and their funding) out of the police department. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Defund_the_police > "Defund the police" is a slogan that supports divesting funds from police departments and reallocating them to non-policing forms of public safety and community support , such as social serv…

I have, which is why I already responded to this with "reducing police funding won't lead to money going to those other places". "Education" is a trick because the same taxes don't fund police (cities) and education (school districts). Making one go down wouldn't cause the other to go up, or even increase voter support for it.

Can you clarify: Are you asserting it's literally impossible, along the lines of being actively unconstitutional or impossible in some fashion, or that "well voters won't want to"?
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