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70% of San Francisco residents say quality of life has declined: poll

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Re: 70% of San Francisco residents say quality of life has declined: poll

#131

Post by monkeybutton »

rejectedandsad wrote: post #29
flatiron wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sometimes there is no direct victim. Whose the direct victim of public urination or jay walking? I’m not saying they should be legal it’s just nobody really gets traumatized if someone crosses the street without right of way.

Jaywalking is one thing but public urination victimizes everyone who is near the area.

Working from home now, there's nothing I miss less than my twice daily walk through a transit station that absolutely reeks of piss INSIDE from all the homeless folks that spend their time there. I feel sorry for the poor fare collectors that have to spend their days working in that environment.

Re: 70% of San Francisco residents say quality of life has declined: poll

#132

Post by jboy55 »

ryanobjc wrote: post #126
Google234 wrote: post #31

It would be nice if they voted in new people (read: republicans) based on this. I think the city would be improved with some different ideas in government.

The republican brand is associated with racism and declining to govern. They cannot win in the Bay Area. I’m unclear what policies they’d bring except more bashing in homeless skulls?

The republicans would do what they normally do with homeless, they ship them to a different city. SF should put its homeless on buses to rural Texas, but they'd all just end up being moved to Austin by the local police.

Re: 70% of San Francisco residents say quality of life has declined: poll

#133

Post by ceejayoz »

astrange wrote: post #81
tolbish wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Police reform does not mean the police should not exist. It means the police should be reformed. So that is a strawman argument. Equating police reform with being anti-police plays right into propaganda.

> Equating police reform with being anti-police plays right into propaganda. The people who started "defund the police" literally do not want there to be police. Sometimes they want to become the police, except they want to be called community violence activists, or therapists, or something. That was fine as a fringe position, but then a lot of other people took up the slogan and just declared that no, actually, it m…

You're mixing up defund with abolition.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Defund_the_police

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Police_abolition_movement

Re: 70% of San Francisco residents say quality of life has declined: poll

#134

Post by dmead »

Consultant32452 wrote: post #124
burlesona wrote: post #2

I feel like this experience is so common it’s almost cliche, but I ended up moving with my family out of the city in mid 2020 mostly due to the major influx of homeless into our neighborhood, which had very little before. I didn’t like my kids facing that every time we walked to the park or the grocery store. There was also a rise in petty crime that made the neighborhood feel a lot less safe. It’s a tough situation.…

The theory is that if people like you are forced to see the homeless you’ll be more willing to fund helping them. Tuck those homeless into shelters and you’ll forget. The problem is people with options leave. They might be willing to help but not at the cost of their own children. The thing 2020 taught me is 90% of the population considers me an acceptable sacrifice. I’m going to have to live with that now and act ac…

> The thing 2020 taught me is 90% of the population considers me an acceptable sacrifice. I’m going to have to live with that now and act accordingly.

what?

Re: 70% of San Francisco residents say quality of life has declined: poll

#135

Post by dehrmann »

defaultname wrote: post #96
ubertoop wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm really confused as to what point you're trying to make with this comment. In order to secure religious freedoms, religious rights, and LGBTQ inclusion, we need to have a filthy city, filled with homelessness, drug addiction, and absurd policies?

His/her comment was clearly in regards to Poland taking a pretty stark curve to the right. Which also has absolutely nothing to do with the benefits the person above mentioned, just as it isn't a "distraction" in San Francisco (what a ridiculous canard that should be pounded down into transparency). Loads of places have all of those freedoms and inclusions, but also have little to no homelessness, crime, or police br…

> It is a complete non-sequitur.

I disagree because of the hierarchy of needs. Having LGBTQ rights is great, but safety and security comes before that.

Re: 70% of San Francisco residents say quality of life has declined: poll

#136

Post by zozbot234 »

ergocoder wrote: post #80
IG_Semmelweiss wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

i dont understand you at all - chesa boudin is in favor of letting all the "non violent" criminals you mention , to avoid jail time and prosecution. He's more of the same SF lawyer we had for decades , but on steroids? What is expected to change exactly?

Yeah but different stages require different attitudes. 10y ago, this wasn't an issue, so it was okay. Now it is an issue.. but we double down on this same approach, which makes it even worse. Sociological problem like this is tricky to solve. SF residents believe that restorative justice will eventually win in the end, so we should cheer for them to follow through with this experiment. Whether it will work or not, we…

> SF residents believe that restorative justice will eventually win in the end, so we should cheer for them to follow through with this experiment.

Doesn't restorative justice usually involve restoration, though? As in, making victims "whole" by paying them fair compensation for the harm they've incurred? How often does that happen in SF?

Re: 70% of San Francisco residents say quality of life has declined: poll

#137

Post by DanHulton »

underseacables wrote: post #28
khazhoux wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're mixing issues. The homelessness problem has been growing for the last 15 years (I mean, before that too, but I remember never being shocked in the early 2000s like I always am today), whereas the "Defund" thing is only in the last year. The homelessness crisis is not caused by a lack of police enforcement.

True, but lack of police enforcement has led to greater numbers of homeless people acting without worry, setting up camps, pooping in the streets, vandalism, assault, robbery, etc. Greater police presence is an excellent deterrent for homeless misbehavior and crime. Otherwise there is no limitation on what those unhoused persons can do, thus exacerbating the problem. It may not have caused it, but the lack of police…

Whole lotta assumptions here. The biggest one is "Greater police presence is an excellent deterrent for homeless misbehavior and crime."

So much of what you said is, honestly, what a lot of homeless people need to do, just to survive. When you don't have safe, ready access to bathrooms, you go outside. When you don't have a job and can't get money, you steal to eat. When you are subject to this misery for long enough, you stop caring about what polite society cares about.

Police presence sure does deter this behaviour, but only where police are present. It doesn't _stop_ this behaviour, because it can't. Cops can't fix homelessness, they can only move it along somewhere else, turn it into some other neighborhood's problem.

If you really want to fix the problem, look at you and me. We don't crap outside, we don't steal, we're not making neighborhoods scary and dangerous (I assume). And why? Because our basic needs are met. We have food, water, shelter, sanitation, entertainment, employment. If you really want to fix the problem, THAT'S the problem you fix. Sadly, social programs for the homeless ("handouts") aren't nearly so politically popular as spending that money on policing, the legal system, and the prison system, despite being many orders more efficient.

Re: 70% of San Francisco residents say quality of life has declined: poll

#138

Post by macspoofing »

Consultant32452 wrote: post #124
burlesona wrote: post #2

I feel like this experience is so common it’s almost cliche, but I ended up moving with my family out of the city in mid 2020 mostly due to the major influx of homeless into our neighborhood, which had very little before. I didn’t like my kids facing that every time we walked to the park or the grocery store. There was also a rise in petty crime that made the neighborhood feel a lot less safe. It’s a tough situation.…

The theory is that if people like you are forced to see the homeless you’ll be more willing to fund helping them. Tuck those homeless into shelters and you’ll forget. The problem is people with options leave. They might be willing to help but not at the cost of their own children. The thing 2020 taught me is 90% of the population considers me an acceptable sacrifice. I’m going to have to live with that now and act ac…

>The theory is that if people like you are forced to see the homeless you’ll be more willing to fund helping them.

Whose theory is this?

Also, why do you think fighting homelessness is just a function of funding? What if activists and the solutions they propose actually exacerbate the problem.

Re: 70% of San Francisco residents say quality of life has declined: poll

#139

Post by throwaway316943 »

ceejayoz wrote: post #35
khazhoux wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That cartoon unintentionally proves the point of those who oppose Defund: The author either intentionally or accidentally discards the stones marked "Theft", "Gang Violence", and "Domestic Violence." Who should response to a gang shooting, a theft, or someone in the middle of beating up their spouse/partner, if not the police?

Those things are, to at least some extent, caused by the things the artist is advocating doing a better job of fixing. The whole point of the cartoon is that tackling the underlying causes of such issues might make them easier to fix.

I agree that addressing underlying causes would reduce those problems but it would take decades even if we went all in on fixing those things. What exactly do we do about them in the mean time?

Re: 70% of San Francisco residents say quality of life has declined: poll

#140

Post by true_religion »

Consultant32452 wrote: post #124
burlesona wrote: post #2

I feel like this experience is so common it’s almost cliche, but I ended up moving with my family out of the city in mid 2020 mostly due to the major influx of homeless into our neighborhood, which had very little before. I didn’t like my kids facing that every time we walked to the park or the grocery store. There was also a rise in petty crime that made the neighborhood feel a lot less safe. It’s a tough situation.…

The theory is that if people like you are forced to see the homeless you’ll be more willing to fund helping them. Tuck those homeless into shelters and you’ll forget. The problem is people with options leave. They might be willing to help but not at the cost of their own children. The thing 2020 taught me is 90% of the population considers me an acceptable sacrifice. I’m going to have to live with that now and act ac…

Don’t homeless shelters help the homeless… by giving them shelter?
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