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Neovim v0.5

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Re: Neovim v0.5

#201
post #199

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Emacs experience on Windows could be faster, but having switched from Neovim to Emacs on macOS I do not want to go back to Neovim now (and I was running the Neovim 0.5/dev branch with LSP and treesitter integration for some time). Your time might be better spent on improving Emacs performance on Windows if you can. I haven’t used Emacs on Windows for a little while, but I wonder if running it via WSL2 with the ne…

But neovim is only getting started. In a few years, the benefits of elisp over lua will probably be nil, and luajit is faster. I expect a lot of these points you make (which are valid) to become less and less relevant. First examples are already there : treesitter is as clean as can be, and telescope looks extremely nice. I'm waiting to see what people come up with for git, now that they don't have to learn vimscript…

That sounds a lot like the old annual joke about Bluetooth: “sure, we know it’s kind of rough around the edges today, but you just wait – it will be amazing next year!”

I agree with you that Emacs and Neovim are at different levels of maturity. And I agree that Neovim could eventually gain better docs, more mature and stable packages, more consistent UI conventions, a better Lua dev experience, less experimental and more actively developed GUIs for those who need something more flexible or accessible than a terminal-drawn UI, better filter-pickers, better documentation for LSP integrations, better git integration, better GitHub/GitLab/forge integration, better plugin dependency handling, a better governance story, a healthier bus factor and contribution story, and more thought about the impact of a fork on the Vim community as a whole.

What I disagree with is the idea that “Neovim will be just as good or better than Emacs in a few years and all your current qualms will mean nothing then” is a compelling reason to use Neovim over Emacs today. My list above is a lot of work, and that’s just to reach parity with Emacs, which will also be maturing and improving in that time. To exceed Emacs for me Neovim would need to do all of that and more, or all of that but better and faster.

I don’t doubt that Neovim will get better really fast because the velocity so far is strong. But right now Neovim feels like a scrappy collection of hacks and experiments from a community of enthusiastic prospectors and beta testers who collectively seem to have no common opinion about what they’re even hoping to build (some still feel that Neovim should not become an IDE or that as much functionality as possible should be shelled out to CLI dependencies).

It’s exciting to be part of a bleeding edge editor community if you’re happy to write or contribute to plugins and try out and configure a bunch of existing ones every few months. It’s less great if you want stable IDE-like features now that feel like they were designed with taste and consistency and have been maintained with love for years.

I don’t really have a horse in the race except that I spent a _lot_ of time configuring and building things for Neovim while using it as a daily driver that I now wish had been spent on Emacs instead. I’m also excited that we have such strong communities of Neovim and Emacs hackers today that both are fun to hack on, get work done with, and continue to argue about with strangers on the internet.

Re: Neovim v0.5

#202
post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You don't know enough developers or engineers. Much like; "If you find that you are always the smartest person in the room, you are in the wrong room." Healthy communities are diverse not homogeneous. You get tunnel-vision if everybody always do things the same way. I use vim on all my servers. I tried neovim awhile ago, but found that muscle memory kept typing vim instead of (nvim/neovim whichever the program execut…

I know plenty of developers and engineers. But the best engineers can only be about a handful, everyone cannot be the best. That's not what the best means. It just so happens that of those best, which by the time you get to my age might only be about 3 or 4, they all seem to use neovim.

I don’t care what the count is, you sample is incredibly biased.

Re: Neovim v0.5

#203
post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

VS Code is an awful editor in general. I don't understand how it's so popular. Maybe it's just me but I don't like having 300ms lag between every action I perform on my editor. The vim emulation is a joke. Onivim's vim emulation is great.. Because it's literally using libvim. It's also very snappy. But thats where the advantages end.

> VS Code is an awful editor in general. I don't understand how it's so popular. Maybe it's just me but I don't like having 300ms lag between every action I perform on my editor. I'm surprised to hear this take. I've been a Doom Emacs user for a while, and while it was a bit more elbow grease to get it running on OSX, it was generally worth it for the speed/flexibility... until I ran into a non-trivially large Terraf…

I spend well over half of my time in Terraform repos. I've also noticed doom emacs slowing down considerably whenever using the terraform-ls so I have lsp disabled for terraform.

Did you ever spend any time debugging what the issue was by any chance? Even with lsp enabled, I wasn't very impressed with any of the features it gave me (emacs or even in vscode)

Re: Neovim v0.5

#204
post #148

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> VS Code is an awful editor in general. I don't understand how it's so popular. Maybe it's just me but I don't like having 300ms lag between every action I perform on my editor. I'm surprised to hear this take. I've been a Doom Emacs user for a while, and while it was a bit more elbow grease to get it running on OSX, it was generally worth it for the speed/flexibility... until I ran into a non-trivially large Terraf…

FYI the few times I've half-earnestly tried emacs+evil one of the reasons I've gone back to (neo)Vim is that emacs feels sluggish. I'm sure at least one time spacemacs was partly to blame (aka ALL THE THINGS activated/installed) - but it's definitely a difference in "feel" where (Neo)Vim feels closer to vi, and emacs feel closer to vs code/Atom.

Doom emacs has a focus on speed that spacemacs just doesn't have. It's similar enough to spacemacs that it is easy to pick up if you got used to spacemacs at all. I'd recommend trying it out and see how it feels.

Re: Neovim v0.5

#205

I love Neovim. I switched from VSCode and never looked back, it's just so much more efficient to just do everything with your keyboard. In case someone is interested how to do the things you're used to from VSCode, I created some videos: https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PLu-ydI-PCl0OEG0ZEqLRRuCrM...

I've tried VSCode a couple of times but I always go back to Neovim. VSCode still depends on the mouse and that kills it for me. I haven't found anything I can't do in Neovim actually. I have a nice setup with Tmux and being already in the terminal is just too convenient and fun.

Re: Neovim v0.5

#206
post #18

I've been using neovim since the initial fork. The Neovim 0.5 is by far the most impressive milestone yet. I tried it couple of months back (before release) and immediately jumped to support the developers through the Github Sponsors after trying it out. https://github.com/sponsors/neovim

Idk why I didn't think about this sooner. I need to sponsor as well. Neovim is a crucial part of my work.

Re: Neovim v0.5

#207
post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

ALE is amazingly useful even for curmudgeonly old timer Vim users. My one gripe is that I want the warnings to disappear once I begin modifying the buffer, which I have achieved. Can post the relevant part of my vimrc if desired.

I’d like to see that as well, please.

https://github.com/lericson/verktyg/blob/80afdcce09088c11bc1...

Re: Neovim v0.5

#208
post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

ALE is amazingly useful even for curmudgeonly old timer Vim users. My one gripe is that I want the warnings to disappear once I begin modifying the buffer, which I have achieved. Can post the relevant part of my vimrc if desired.

Yes please :)

https://github.com/lericson/verktyg/blob/80afdcce09088c11bc1...

Re: Neovim v0.5

#209
post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

ALE is amazingly useful even for curmudgeonly old timer Vim users. My one gripe is that I want the warnings to disappear once I begin modifying the buffer, which I have achieved. Can post the relevant part of my vimrc if desired.

Count me as interested!

https://github.com/lericson/verktyg/blob/80afdcce09088c11bc1...
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