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I do not agree with Github's use of copyrighted code as training for Copilot

thelig.ht

291–300 of 545 posts

Re: I do not agree with Github's use of copyrighted code as training for Copilot

#291
post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If it sparks the necessary discussions I don't care if it was written by Joe Random Nobody or Joe Biden. > It's just posted(not by the guy that made the page, mind you) Others would complain if the author himself had posted this.

The necessary discussion was already sparked.

Well, a lot of the people with voting rights here obviously thought otherwise.

Re: I do not agree with Github's use of copyrighted code as training for Copilot

#292
post #185
post #139

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So, to verify, your claim is that GPT-3, when trained on a corpus of human text, isn't merely managing to string together a bunch of high-probability sequences of symbol constructs--which is how every article I have ever read on how it functions describes the technology--but is instead managing to build a model of the human world and the mechanism of narration required to describe it, with which it uses to write new…

What? I don't think I made any claim of the sort. I'm claiming that it does more than mere regurgitation and has done some amount of abstraction, not that it has human-level understanding. As an example, GPT-3 learned some arithmetic and can solve basic math problems not in its training set. This is beyond pattern matching and replication, IMO. I'm not really sure why we should consider Copilot legally different from…

It's not really comparable to a pen. Because a pen by itself doesn't copy someone else's code/written words. It's more like copying code from Github or if you wrote a script that did that automatically. You have to be actively cautious that the material that you are copying is not violating any copyrights. The problem is Copilot has enough sophistication to for example change variable names and make it very hard to do content matching. What I can guarantee it won't be able to do is to be able to generate novel code from scratch that does a particular function (source: I have a PhD in ML). This brute-force way of modeling computer programs (using a language model) is just not sophisticated enough to be able to reason and generate high level concepts at least today.

Re: I do not agree with Github's use of copyrighted code as training for Copilot

#293
> This product injects source code derived from copyrighted sources into the software of their customers without informing them of the license of the original source code. This significantly eases unauthorized and unlicensed use of a copyright holder's work.

It appears that GitHub wishes to address this issue via UI changes to Copilot. A quote from a recent post on GitHub[0]:

> When a suggestion contains snippets copied from the training set, the UI should simply tell you where it’s quoted from. You can then either include proper attribution or decide against using that code altogether.

> This duplication search is not yet integrated into the technical preview, but we plan to do so. And we will both continue to work on decreasing rates of recitation, and on making its detection more precise.

That post is also on the Hacker News front page right now[1], but has 10% of the upvotes as this post so it's less visible.

I'm hoping all the criticism will encourage GitHub to make a better product.

[0]: https://docs.github.com/en/github/copilot/research-recitatio...

[1]: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27723710

Re: I do not agree with Github's use of copyrighted code as training for Copilot

#294
post #128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Reading some copyrighted code can have you entirely excluded from some jobs What provision of copyright law are you referring to? Are you conflating copyright law with arbitrary organizational policies?

Who said it was a law?

Which “it” are you referring to? @lacker was talking about copyright in the comment @jcelerier replied to.

Re: I do not agree with Github's use of copyrighted code as training for Copilot

#295

I'm glad that Copilot is bringing the grey areas of copyright into discussion. If I write a book and it is copyright, what's the smallest unit which is covered by that copyright? Each word is obviously not. Some sentences will be fairly generic and I will not be the first person to write them. But some sentences will be characteristic of the work or my own style. Clearly how we apply copyright to subdivisions of an o…

This. You realize it doesn’t make any sense. All ideas are shared creations, by definition. If you’ve created something that has meaning for other people, the meaning comes from the ideas you are incorporating into your own tree.

There is no defending copyright. It is indefensible from first principles. It makes no logical sense.

Though it sure has proven to be a profitable con.

Re: I do not agree with Github's use of copyrighted code as training for Copilot

#296
post #244
post #127

I've given thousands of hours to open source projects, I really think open source is a pillar of modern society. So you would think I am all for something like copilot, but no. At first I thought this was a great feature, because easier access to code, but after some reflection, I am also very skeptical. I am able to make my code open source, because I can make a living out of it, and I have a lot of open source code…

> have a lot of open source code that I love to share for things like education or private stuff, but if you want to use it for something real, you need to hire me. If you can suck all the code without even I noticing it, that's not fair Co-pilot aside, that's already how it works today. If you make something open source, I can use your code to power my business, and I'm under no obligation to hire you. It's great wh…

> If you make something open source, I can use your code to power my business

"Open source" isn't a license. You're not allowed to just use any open source software that doesn't contain a license by default.

Re: I do not agree with Github's use of copyrighted code as training for Copilot

#297
post #155

Feels like everyone is missing the point: Copilot will ultimately serve to weaken the arguments in support of software patents and copyright. That can only be a good thing for society (though perhaps not for rent seekers).

If all copilot output was automatically GPL, I would think it’s fantastic. As it stands, it seems to undermine GPL the most.

Re: I do not agree with Github's use of copyrighted code as training for Copilot

#299
post #15

Why is this noteworthy? Who is this person? Am I missing something? I agree that there needs to be talk about licensing and copyright but with so "less/no content" there can be no meaningful discussion other than aimless banter.

> Why is this noteworthy? Who is this person? Am I missing something

Why is this comment noteworthy? Who is this person? Am I missing something?

Re: I do not agree with Github's use of copyrighted code as training for Copilot

#300
post #244
post #127

I've given thousands of hours to open source projects, I really think open source is a pillar of modern society. So you would think I am all for something like copilot, but no. At first I thought this was a great feature, because easier access to code, but after some reflection, I am also very skeptical. I am able to make my code open source, because I can make a living out of it, and I have a lot of open source code…

> have a lot of open source code that I love to share for things like education or private stuff, but if you want to use it for something real, you need to hire me. If you can suck all the code without even I noticing it, that's not fair Co-pilot aside, that's already how it works today. If you make something open source, I can use your code to power my business, and I'm under no obligation to hire you. It's great wh…

It sounds like the person you're responding to already releases their code under a non-commercial license. The problem with Copilot is that it may allow commercial enterprises to avoid such a license by copying the code verbatim from their repositories, possibly without any party involved knowing that it's happened.
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