Where are we going from here? Software engineering needs formal methods
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Re: Where are we going from here? Software engineering needs formal methods
#2Whether or not formal methods can be applied is almost entirely an economic decision since that kind of rigor drives up cost. Makes sense in certain high value systems when the organization wrapped around them has the resources or the level of risk associated with a less rigorous approach is too high (e.g. at NASA).
What the author seems to miss completely is that there are many systems developed using typical methodologies that generate billions in revenue. What this tells you is that ideas like TLA+ are effectively superfluous in a wide variety of software contexts.
Re: Where are we going from here? Software engineering needs formal methods
#3There are plenty of shops that apply rigorous, formal methods to software design. Military contractors providing software for mission critical systems do this (or used to). Some will cut corners, but they are supposed to follow the methods and procedures the contracts specify.
It isn’t common in private industry because it’s typically deemed unimportant.
Re: Where are we going from here? Software engineering needs formal methods
#4Formal methods may work for civil engineering where the usual workflow is gathering requirements, developing a detailed project and building the thing, with the implicit understanding that any little change will mean recalculating costs and deadlines.
When your customer decides to pivot the fintech app you were developing into a cryptocurrency investment tool, it makes no sense.
Re: Where are we going from here? Software engineering needs formal methods
#5Whether or not formal methods can be applied is almost entirely an economic decision since that kind of rigor drives up cost. Makes sense in certain high value systems when the organization wrapped around them has the resources or the level of risk associated with a less rigorous approach is too high (e.g. at NASA). What the author seems to miss completely is that there are many systems developed using typical method…
It's not easy to quantify but you can't just dismiss formal methods because we don't know how much development and maintenance overhead they would eliminate.
How much revenue something generates is a poor metric. Otherwise, we all would probably be programming in PHP.
Re: Where are we going from here? Software engineering needs formal methods
#6Formal methods may work for civil engineering where the usual workflow is gathering requirements, developing a detailed project and building the thing, with the implicit understanding that any little change will mean recalculating costs and deadlines. When your customer decides to pivot the fintech app you were developing into a cryptocurrency investment tool, it makes no sense.
How much help your unit tests if your customer pivots from their original idea?
Is that a reason not to write unit tests in the first place?
Re: Where are we going from here? Software engineering needs formal methods
#7There are plenty of shops that apply rigorous, formal methods to software design. Military contractors providing software for mission critical systems do this (or used to). Some will cut corners, but they are supposed to follow the methods and procedures the contracts specify. It isn’t common in private industry because it’s typically deemed unimportant.
You aren't paid either to write unit tests in the private industry.
You are paid to write working code.
Re: Where are we going from here? Software engineering needs formal methods
#8There are plenty of shops that apply rigorous, formal methods to software design. Military contractors providing software for mission critical systems do this (or used to). Some will cut corners, but they are supposed to follow the methods and procedures the contracts specify. It isn’t common in private industry because it’s typically deemed unimportant.
You aren't paid either to write unit tests in the private industry. You are paid to write working code.
Depends on where you work. The cult of unit testing is pervasive in the Bay Area, at least. It doesn’t result in noticeably better software.
Re: Where are we going from here? Software engineering needs formal methods
#9There is a lot of formal method usage in smart contracts. Maker DAO for example did a full formal verification of their stuff, and there is a lot of talk within the security community about it.
Re: Where are we going from here? Software engineering needs formal methods
#10Formal methods may work for civil engineering where the usual workflow is gathering requirements, developing a detailed project and building the thing, with the implicit understanding that any little change will mean recalculating costs and deadlines. When your customer decides to pivot the fintech app you were developing into a cryptocurrency investment tool, it makes no sense.
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