What did ancient languages sound like? • Hacker News Board

Re: What did ancient languages sound like?

#11

Post by imbnwa » Sat, Jul 03, 2021, 5:21 PM UTC

gpraghu wrote: post #5

You mean “What did ancient European languages sound like” perhaps? I would submit that Samskruta (NOT the anclicised Sanskrit) sounds exactly like how it did in ancient times. How come there is no discussion of that at all?

A discussion of that would have to also include a discussion of why Lithuanian has also not changed much since the vocabulary is filled with Samskruta cognates that Lithuanian does NOT share with Slavic languages like Russian or Polish, some examples from Wikipedia:

- S: sunus, L: sunus (son)

- S: avis, L: avis (sheep)

- S: padas, L: padas (foot)

- S: viras, L: vyras (man, also compare Latin vir [pronounced weer])

- S: dhumas, L: dumas (smoke)

- S: antaras, L: antras (other, second)

- S: vṛkas, L: vilkas (wolf)

- S: yuñje, L: jungiu (I join)

- S: jántis, L: gentys (tribes, also compare Latin gentes [a/the people])

- S: dantas, L: dantis (also compare Latin dentes)

- S: naktis, L: naktis (also compare Latin noctes)

Re: What did ancient languages sound like?

#12

Post by hallarempt » Sat, Jul 03, 2021, 5:22 PM UTC

gpraghu wrote: post #5

You mean “What did ancient European languages sound like” perhaps? I would submit that Samskruta (NOT the anclicised Sanskrit) sounds exactly like how it did in ancient times. How come there is no discussion of that at all?

No, it doesn't. End of discussion.

Re: What did ancient languages sound like?

#13

Post by LordDragonfang » Sat, Jul 03, 2021, 5:22 PM UTC

Of similar note, NativLang on Youtube has a fascinating series of narrated videos on how we know what various ancient languages sound like [1] (you'll have to forgive the cheesy graphics). I particularly liked the one on ancient Egyptian[2].

[1] https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLc4s09N3L2h3d_c5Z5d0J...

[2] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J-K5OjAkiEA&list=PLc4s09N3L2...

Re: What did ancient languages sound like?

#14

Post by tweaktastic » Sat, Jul 03, 2021, 5:26 PM UTC

poisonarena wrote: post #6

gpraghu wrote: post #5

You mean “What did ancient European languages sound like” perhaps? I would submit that Samskruta (NOT the anclicised Sanskrit) sounds exactly like how it did in ancient times. How come there is no discussion of that at all?

The article is about Indo-European languages, that includes 'indic, iranian, and slavic'. You can write a blog about Samskruta.

Are you saying Samskruta is not an Indic language?

Re: What did ancient languages sound like?

#15

Post by tweaktastic » Sat, Jul 03, 2021, 5:26 PM UTC

poisonarena wrote: post #6

gpraghu wrote: post #5

You mean “What did ancient European languages sound like” perhaps? I would submit that Samskruta (NOT the anclicised Sanskrit) sounds exactly like how it did in ancient times. How come there is no discussion of that at all?

The article is about Indo-European languages, that includes 'indic, iranian, and slavic'. You can write a blog about Samskruta.

Are you saying Samskruta is not an Indic language?

Re: What did ancient languages sound like?

#16

Post by imbnwa » Sat, Jul 03, 2021, 5:33 PM UTC

For people who are interested in ancient Greek, Podium Arts' YouTube channel is filled with professional readings of Attic Greek works, like Apologia[0], Plato's Apology

[0]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k3tlBO3agFU

Re: What did ancient languages sound like?

#17

Post by yumraj » Sat, Jul 03, 2021, 5:34 PM UTC

Perhaps this is the right thread to ask the question as to how people figured out what ancient Egyptian words sound.

From what I understand Rosetta Stone simply provided a dictionary of sorts, so I can understand how they know which words mean what. But how do they know that a certain combination of hieroglyphs translates into words pronounced as say “Ramses” or “Tutankhamen “ and so on.

Re: What did ancient languages sound like?

#18

Post by kaesar14 » Sat, Jul 03, 2021, 5:39 PM UTC

yumraj wrote: post #17

Perhaps this is the right thread to ask the question as to how people figured out what ancient Egyptian words sound. From what I understand Rosetta Stone simply provided a dictionary of sorts, so I can understand how they know which words mean what. But how do they know that a certain combination of hieroglyphs translates into words pronounced as say “Ramses” or “Tutankhamen “ and so on.

https://youtu.be/5NeccdDpO5I

I found this to be a great source on the topic. Your question is a great one, and hints as to why Jean-Francois Champollion is hailed as the genius he was. The key insight was essentially the theory that the Coptic language spoken still as the liturgical language of Coptic Christians in Egypt was a modern form of the ancient Egyptian language encoded by Hieroglyphics. Champollion made a key insight attempting to decipher a cartouche (the hieroglyphic form used to write a name) that a symbol at the beginning of a name looked extremely similar to a sun. The Coptic word for sun was Ra. At the time, they’d already identified the symbol used to writes a ‘ss’ sound, and so Champollion was able to guess at the middle symbols spelling Mes, leading to the deciphering of Rameses. Note that the European world at large obviously already knew the name Rameses, which was key here.

I believe in general names were key to deciphering many of the sounds used in the language, coupled with pronunciations hinted at by Coptic.

I typed this all by memory so I may be off in some details but I believe I have the gist right.

Re: What did ancient languages sound like?

#19

Post by KhoomeiK » Sat, Jul 03, 2021, 5:57 PM UTC

gpraghu wrote: post #5

You mean “What did ancient European languages sound like” perhaps? I would submit that Samskruta (NOT the anclicised Sanskrit) sounds exactly like how it did in ancient times. How come there is no discussion of that at all?

I agree with the sentiment but ironically your transliteration of the name of that language reveals that it certainly has undergone at least some sound changes. Why do people in the north pronounce the vocalic "r" as "ri" while in the south they use "ru"? Why do people in the north drop word final schwa but in the south they add a nasal bilabial?

While it's very easy to pronounce Samskrta in a way similar to what was likely used in classical times, there have definitely been sound changes to an extent.

Re: What did ancient languages sound like?

#20

Post by KhoomeiK » Sat, Jul 03, 2021, 5:59 PM UTC

imbnwa wrote: post #11

gpraghu wrote: post #5

You mean “What did ancient European languages sound like” perhaps? I would submit that Samskruta (NOT the anclicised Sanskrit) sounds exactly like how it did in ancient times. How come there is no discussion of that at all?

A discussion of that would have to also include a discussion of why Lithuanian has also not changed much since the vocabulary is filled with Samskruta cognates that Lithuanian does NOT share with Slavic languages like Russian or Polish, some examples from Wikipedia: - S: sunus, L: sunus (son) - S: avis, L: avis (sheep) - S: padas, L: padas (foot) - S: viras, L: vyras (man, also compare Latin vir [pronounced weer]) -…

Lithuanian in general is considered one of the most conservative IE languages. There isn't really any clear reason that historical linguistics has produced for whether languages change quickly or slowly afaik.