What did ancient languages sound like?

#1

Post by mewithoutyou » Sat, Jul 03, 2021, 2:14 PM UTC

What did ancient languages sound like?
antigonejournal.com

Re: What did ancient languages sound like?

#2

Post by marcodiego » Sat, Jul 03, 2021, 4:40 PM UTC

TLDR:

The difficult task of reproducing the pitch accents in Greek might be a step too far for most people, but consider the following line from Homer’s Iliad 1.345:

ὣς φάτο Πάτροκλος δὲ φίλῳ ἐπεπείθεθ᾽ ἑταίρῳ

It develops beautifully from sauntering labial alliteration (of p and ph sounds) to rapid-fire dental consonance (of th and t sounds), but if we pronounce Φ and Θ as fricatives here:

https://antigonejournal.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/07/Iliad...

rather than aspirated stops:

https://antigonejournal.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/07/Iliad...

then the distinction between Φ and Π and between Θ and Τ becomes so great that the sound effect is lost completely. Homer, for one, would have cared.

Re: What did ancient languages sound like?

#3

Post by BillyTheKing » Sat, Jul 03, 2021, 4:57 PM UTC

lovely article! another one of those letters that weirdly fascinates me is Beta, in modern Greek it's pronounced as a V whereas when we read Ancient Greek we usually pronounce it as B.

There was an excerpt somewhere where one Ancient Greek author (unfortunately I have forgotten who exactly) described the sound sheep were making, and he did so writing the following:

Sheep make the following sound: βαί, βαί

which could either be Bae, Bae, or Vae, Vae... (whereas nowadays we would probably use an 'm' to describe the sound, as in Mae mae) - so while the sound is described, it doesn't really provide a definite answer since both seem somewhat possible. But maybe the author of this article could help us out here!

Re: What did ancient languages sound like?

#4

Post by keiferski » Sat, Jul 03, 2021, 5:07 PM UTC

BillyTheKing wrote: post #3

lovely article! another one of those letters that weirdly fascinates me is Beta, in modern Greek it's pronounced as a V whereas when we read Ancient Greek we usually pronounce it as B. There was an excerpt somewhere where one Ancient Greek author (unfortunately I have forgotten who exactly) described the sound sheep were making, and he did so writing the following: Sheep make the following sound: βαί, βαί which could…

Serious question: is it possible that the sounds made by sheep would have changed over time?

Re: What did ancient languages sound like?

#5

Post by gpraghu » Sat, Jul 03, 2021, 5:07 PM UTC

You mean “What did ancient European languages sound like” perhaps? I would submit that Samskruta (NOT the anclicised Sanskrit) sounds exactly like how it did in ancient times. How come there is no discussion of that at all?

Re: What did ancient languages sound like?

#6

Post by poisonarena » Sat, Jul 03, 2021, 5:14 PM UTC

gpraghu wrote: post #5

You mean “What did ancient European languages sound like” perhaps? I would submit that Samskruta (NOT the anclicised Sanskrit) sounds exactly like how it did in ancient times. How come there is no discussion of that at all?

The article is about Indo-European languages, that includes 'indic, iranian, and slavic'. You can write a blog about Samskruta.

Re: What did ancient languages sound like?

#7

Post by neom » Sat, Jul 03, 2021, 5:15 PM UTC

If this is interesting to you, you may also enjoy this ted talk on Indigenous languages, personally I found it very interesting:

A history of Indigenous languages -- and how to revitalize them: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BoRXbjGJrI0

Re: What did ancient languages sound like?

#8

Post by minitoar » Sat, Jul 03, 2021, 5:15 PM UTC

keiferski wrote: post #4

BillyTheKing wrote: post #3

lovely article! another one of those letters that weirdly fascinates me is Beta, in modern Greek it's pronounced as a V whereas when we read Ancient Greek we usually pronounce it as B. There was an excerpt somewhere where one Ancient Greek author (unfortunately I have forgotten who exactly) described the sound sheep were making, and he did so writing the following: Sheep make the following sound: βαί, βαί which could…

Serious question: is it possible that the sounds made by sheep would have changed over time?

Different sheep make different sounds today. Mostly it’s just yelling. I think our perception of it insists on a leading consonant that just isn’t there.

Re: What did ancient languages sound like?

#9

Post by kleton » Sat, Jul 03, 2021, 5:16 PM UTC

BillyTheKing wrote: post #3

lovely article! another one of those letters that weirdly fascinates me is Beta, in modern Greek it's pronounced as a V whereas when we read Ancient Greek we usually pronounce it as B. There was an excerpt somewhere where one Ancient Greek author (unfortunately I have forgotten who exactly) described the sound sheep were making, and he did so writing the following: Sheep make the following sound: βαί, βαί which could…

You can't really generalize Ancient Greek, since in Attic, beta kept the /b/ sound the longest, whereas in many non-Attic languages it had already been /v/ for a long time.

Re: What did ancient languages sound like?

#10

Post by imbnwa » Sat, Jul 03, 2021, 5:16 PM UTC

poisonarena wrote: post #6

gpraghu wrote: post #5

You mean “What did ancient European languages sound like” perhaps? I would submit that Samskruta (NOT the anclicised Sanskrit) sounds exactly like how it did in ancient times. How come there is no discussion of that at all?

The article is about Indo-European languages, that includes 'indic, iranian, and slavic'. You can write a blog about Samskruta.

Samskruta is an Indo-European language.