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Bay Area cities want to end single-family home zoning

sfchronicle.com

101–110 of 373 posts

Re: Bay Area cities want to end single-family home zoning

#101
post #34

Go further. Get rid of all zoning that’s unrelated to pollution of some kind or strictly a safety issue. Why is the government involved in whether I can run a business from my home? Why is the government responsible for controlling where businesses might be located instead of the free market controlling that aspect more dynamically?

The reasonable justification is government builds public infrastructure like schools, highways, and subways based on assumptions about use and population density. It’s much harder and more expensive to have reasonable infrastructure if you can’t make accurate predictions. The de facto justification is indirect negative externalities exist like traffic congestion. Also known as F U I got mine.

With uses segregated, the "reasonable" argument does not make sense to me: infrastructure will have to be maximized because there will be big migrations of people based on normal use times like going to work. You need twice as much parking, twice as much freeway throughput.

Re: Bay Area cities want to end single-family home zoning

#102

It's received wisdom on HN that the Bay Area housing crisis is caused by NIMBYs and restrictive zoning laws. On the other hand my sense, based on anecdata, is that a large proportion of the condos constructed in the past 15-ish years in eastern SF (Embarcadero, Rincon, etc.) and SOMA/Dogpatch are owned by absentee landlords as investment property. Since these folk are mostly rich SV types (or wealthy overseas investo…

Rent seeking refers to economic rent, which is not the same thing as "housing rent". It has a very specific definition when used in the context of economic rent seeking. Renting out houses for people to live in is not rent seeking.

Re: Bay Area cities want to end single-family home zoning

#103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You wouldn’t have to go all the way to Houston style zoning. SF’s regulations are so onerous that going just half way would help massively.

Houston still has also sorts of housing covenant and other thing. Texas is still a low density mess, too. We do need to get rid of stupid zoning, but also cannot rely on a housing market to do the right thing. We need to force a shift to anti-car rather than pro-car development (and it really is a dichotomy, with the midpoint being a highly unstable equilibrium). The fact that they are talking about 4-plexes shows th…

[deleted]

Re: Bay Area cities want to end single-family home zoning

#104
When I read articles like this, where the solutions proposed are to make it more efficient (legally, operationally, fiscally) for more people to live in smaller places, I'm curious how that resolves with others' sense of the desire for privacy.

I realize the privacy conversation here usually revolves around ad tech, but for me at least, it's more general than that. And I find that the denser the population, no matter how optimal it is, creates more constraints for me as a human being.

There's a sweet spot in the human equation for me, when I am the most liberty to enjoy self determination and free well, but also rub shoulders socially with enough of the rest of mankind that I enjoy the magnification that happens when we work together.

So I applaud efforts to get people in equitable homes--I have a married daughter who takes care of my wonderful wonderful 20mo grand twins, and I fear and angst for their future housing prospects in this country--but if they're just cages for rent in the end, did we really get the real prize?

Re: Bay Area cities want to end single-family home zoning

#105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why would the Bay Area grow so much in the next decade? Now that remote working is becoming more normal, and considering the cost of living in the Bay Area, why would that many people want to move there? There are plenty of other places with comparable natural beauty, vibrant communities, cultural resources, etc.

Start naming those other places and we will tell you why they are not viable or comparable. If there are so many it should be easy.

I bet those other places are 115 Fahrenheit right now.

Re: Bay Area cities want to end single-family home zoning

#106

It's received wisdom on HN that the Bay Area housing crisis is caused by NIMBYs and restrictive zoning laws. On the other hand my sense, based on anecdata, is that a large proportion of the condos constructed in the past 15-ish years in eastern SF (Embarcadero, Rincon, etc.) and SOMA/Dogpatch are owned by absentee landlords as investment property. Since these folk are mostly rich SV types (or wealthy overseas investo…

Rent seeking refers to economic rent, which is not the same thing as "housing rent". It has a very specific definition when used in the context of economic rent seeking. Renting out houses for people to live in is not rent seeking.

Economic rent takes its name from and is a generalization of land rent; land rent isn't just an example of economic rent, it is the paradigmatic example.

Re: Bay Area cities want to end single-family home zoning

#107

People are stupid if they think this will fix things. I went to the peninsula looking at houses and the new trend is to add ADUs as part of the house or in the back. You know why? To help the owners pay off their $3M houses they used to be $1M 8 years ago. This then figures into the calculus of how much you can afford to buy a house for. What is an unaffordable $8000/month mortgage now becomes $6000/month. So people…

You’re quite right that every saving ends up getting funnelled into mortgage payments.

> Too many rich engineers with their stock going up 10-20x is what is fueling the housing crunch.

But you’ve missed the mark here. We haven’t seen rich engineers push up the price of Teslas or iPhones or Xfinity because these things are all in plentiful supply. If there were only 1000 iPhones in the world, they would cost a fortune and all be owned by rich people or speculators. And that’s the situation with housing, not just in the Bay Area but across much of America and Western Europe. The majority of the housing stock is owned by the baby boomers who neglected the need to build new housing for their children. And where does all this tech wealth end up? In that generation’s bank accounts when they sell or rent.

The people with means are not the problem. The people ripping them off are. They might even be your own parents.

Re: Bay Area cities want to end single-family home zoning

#108
post #81

Go further. Get rid of all zoning that’s unrelated to pollution of some kind or strictly a safety issue. Why is the government involved in whether I can run a business from my home? Why is the government responsible for controlling where businesses might be located instead of the free market controlling that aspect more dynamically?

Well my neighbor works in construction and would park several of his giant dump trucks in the street parking and the crew would gather outside every morning making a ruckus while leaving for the day. It was terrible and I was glad the code department put a stop to that and made every person in that neighborhood happy. This reasoning is exactly why I stopped being a libertarian, the free market has no recourse mechani…

Did you and your neighbors every try talking to the guy?

Government policy and the marketplace aren't the exclusive ways of managing relationships between people.

Re: Bay Area cities want to end single-family home zoning

#109
I am of the idea that we need to focus on building new cities and more efficient roads to connect them. I don’t want to live in the Bay Area particularly, but when I have to go to SF, it sucks that sometimes it can take up to 2 hours to commute 30 miles.

As a software architect, it feels as if the common recipe for solving a scalability problem is decentralization for which you need an awesome messaging system. I do not get why we keep centralizing ourselves around the Bay Area. I am not an expert in the field so perhaps I am coming from a point of ignorance here, but I am genuinely curious as to why.

The USA built the most new cities and roads during the time it prospered, and it seems that we stopped doing that. Not long ago, Elon Musk was highlighting how fast China continues building infrastructures to satisfy the demands of their growing population, and I had noticed that too thanks to friends who have tons of awesome things to say about their visits. Why we don’t go that route? It seems like China is kicking our ass there.

Re: Bay Area cities want to end single-family home zoning

#110
post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Right. A better term would be Apartment Prohibition, which swept the country in the 1970s after the Supreme Court said you can't just directly exclude people by race.

Earlier - this started in 1911 when the Supreme Court said that.

Highly progressive people continue to self segregate into very non-diverse neighborhoods when buying houses.
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