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The risky bat-virus engineering that links America to Wuhan

technologyreview.com

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Re: The risky bat-virus engineering that links America to Wuhan

#81

Post by CyanBird »

tynpeddler wrote: post #63

This article has a number of issues that jump out to me from just a cursory read. The author admits that the NIH has a specific definition of "gain of function research" and then seems to go forward with the article using their own definition, without calling out that they're doing this. Why are they using their own definition instead of the NIH's? The Chinese research this author cites claims that there are large re…

You are seeing these issues because the piece is based on motivated reasoning

The author has more than a few other pieces which helped push the US into invading Iraq back on 2003

And these are the same old tactics which were used to foment the invasion of Iraq in the 90s with things like the unquestioned statements such as "throwing babies out of incubators"

Re: The risky bat-virus engineering that links America to Wuhan

#82

Post by bhk »

DiogenesKynikos wrote: post #19
LinuxBender wrote: post #7

Youtube is still censoring this topic. Two well known scientists testified before congress on GoF testing and the Corona Virus characteristics. That was pulled down within a few hours. I save all these videos but no idea what to do with them. [Edit] I found a copy of the coverage posted by Forbes [1] and as a matter of correction it is the GOP House Oversight and Reform Subcommittee on Select Coronavirus Crisis heari…

Stephen Quay is a "well known scientist" in a field completely unrelated to virology. He's a medical doctor who also does oncology research. Despite admitting to having no experience with Bayesian inference, he produced a "Bayesian analysis" of the origins of SARS-CoV-2. Another person who testified at that hearing, David Asher (also not a virologist, or even a scientist, but rather a former State Department bureaucr…

In response to the claim "YouTube it still taking down videos claiming X", you reply "This video featured someone not credible."

Are you claiming that YouTube's policy is to take down all videos with non-credible speakers? Or that YouTube judged that the arguments made in this particular video did not meet their standards?

Re: The risky bat-virus engineering that links America to Wuhan

#83

Post by eloff »

kwthrows wrote: post #13
bumbada wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We should develop open source decentralized alternatives to it that are easy to use.

It won't change anything. This isn't to do with facebook per-se, you'd just get "unlinked" from whatever arbitrators or aggreggators of a decentralized alternative exist, and still be labeled a social outcast and a conspiracy theorist. It's not a technology problem, rather it's one of imbeciles. It also exists on HN. There is a bevvy of topics we are not allowed to discuss here because dang will point to some arbitra…

I once posted a question about some trans issue on multiple online communities. I forget the exact issue, and I presented both sides of the issue and then where I thought the truth may lie. I was pretty open about not knowing and wanting a discussion. It got shutdown everywhere, so I live on in ignorance because some things are apparently verboten. How does that benefit anyone?

There should be nothing so sacred as to be above debate.

The problem with this group of tech companies deciding what is true and what is not, is that even if they're right the vast majority of the time, that few percent where they were wrong and silenced that voice actually matter. Nearly every idea we now hold sacred in science was once heretical. If you silence the heretics, how can you have progress? The Catholic church used to do that, during a period we now call the dark ages. We know how this ends.

Protecting people from misinformation can't be done with censorship, only by presenting them with the truth.

Re: The risky bat-virus engineering that links America to Wuhan

#84

Post by runawaybottle »

JohnWhigham wrote: post #52
secondcoming wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Indeed. The whole thing needs to be looked at. Someone somewhere decided that the topic was taboo and needed to be purged from the internet, and then someone somewhere decided that it was ok that the tpoic gets to see the light of day. It's all quite sinister.

Those someones were CNN/MSNBC producers that decided not to give it the light of day because Trump talked about it first and that means it's unequivocally Bad™ and racist. All 24/7 news networks should be dissolved immediately. They are aggressive cancers that have been ruinous to society. And I still get downvoted. Lol. This community is no better than the social media sites it trashes.

It’s really crazy how the skeptical crowd (erring on the side of the lab leak theory) are all grayed out. How about we don’t gray those voices out in these discussions. Dispute it, no problem, but somethings do need to be talked about over and over.

There’s a million discussions on code complexity, job interviews, etc, because we know it’s a problem we have to keep angling at to come to a truth. Here we have China that is undoubtedly being obstructionist with respect to gaining clarity. We have to keep angling at this if we are ever to get closer.

Find me the bat or animal that has Covid-19 in the wild. Until then, we keep discussing.

_______

In this murder case, Wuhan Institute of Virology with a focus on bat coronaviruses is SUSPECT #1 in a bat coronavirus outbreak that occurred in Wuhan.

/micdrop

We owe it to ourselves to continue discussing.

Re: The risky bat-virus engineering that links America to Wuhan

#86

Post by iratewizard »

rossdavidh wrote: post #69

Much of the article reminds me of the description of how NASA ended up launching a shuttle in temperatures far below what they originally would have allowed. You walk just past the line, nothing bad happens, so you move the line a bit. You walk just past that line, nothing bad happens...and this repeats until, inevitably, eventually, something bad happens. Regardless of whether or not this pandemic came from this lab…

I have trouble imagining what an external auditor established in China would look like. A worldwide rating similar to credit ratings, where failing to play the game correctly results in sanctions? If China's IP history has shown us anything, it's that they will do whatever they want with reckless abandon.

Re: The risky bat-virus engineering that links America to Wuhan

#87

Post by heavyset_go »

api wrote: post #38
nradov wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Official line in which country? And what happens when the WHO says one thing, the CDC says something else, and the President contradicts both?

What happens? Facebook eats it from all sides. I didn't say they were doing a good job, just that the alternative would have been to let the platform turn into a complete cesspool of bullshit and hate. This scenario is a curse you get when you are operating a gigantic Internet forum at that kind of scale.

> I didn't say they were doing a good job, just that the alternative would have been to let the platform turn into a complete cesspool of bullshit and hate.

Here's an example of this happening[1].

[1] https://www.nytimes.com/2018/10/15/technology/myanmar-facebo...

Re: The risky bat-virus engineering that links America to Wuhan

#88

Post by belltaco »

chroem- wrote: post #68
api wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So use Vimeo, Peertube, your own web site, ...

> your own web site What about all those times internet infrastructure companies shut down the people who built their own website? Do you see the precedent that you're setting?

All those times? How many times? Thrice?

Re: The risky bat-virus engineering that links America to Wuhan

#89

Post by wombatmobile »

raphlinus wrote: post #78
jdavis703 wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This sort of work should absolutely get more difficult for western scientists too. We’ve had several lab leaks that through luck didn’t turn in to pandemics. Certainly the costs of auditing and complying with lab safety is far cheaper than a global pandemic.

Prominent, respected virologists have been questioning gain of function research for a while. Here's a cite[1] from 2018 from Marc Lipsitch, who would be on most people's top ten list of trusted virologists on Covid. He's also one of the signatories of the letter calling for investigation[2]. I think it's possible to split out the question of bioresearch risks from Covid origins. If it was a lab leak, obviously we sh…

> Prominent, respected virologists have been questioning gain of function research for a while

The quotation you cite from Lipitsch doesn't validate your comment.

He wasn't "questioning gain of function research". He was calling for greater oversight over gain of function research and for more initiatives to try to limit the damage potential of zoonotic spillover.

If anything, Lipitsch was upholding the value of gain of function research, because he believes scientists should do everything possible to try to prevent pandemics.

Re: The risky bat-virus engineering that links America to Wuhan

#90

Post by runawaybottle »

echelon wrote: post #39
ralph84 wrote: post #23

This is progress. Maybe soon we can finally admit that "gain of function" is the politically correct way to say "bioweapon".

This wasn't a biological weapon. Gain of function research was being carried out for the benefit of society (or resume padding). However, it wasn't subject to oversight (to put it mildly) and was being handled by a lab ill-equipped to do so safely. China has massive zoonotic reservoirs. The US researchers that led the world in Coronavirus study wanted to do gain of function, but couldn't do it domestically and didn't…

The lab was sloppy, the modified virus leaked, and the rest is history.

That is the most likely explanation, and it is unfortunate you are getting so heavily downvoted.

There are probably only a handful of people ultimately responsible for this.

Again, how much do lab assistants make? I know it’s not a lot in America, and even less in China. I wonder who the person was cleaning bat poop, feeding them, etc. Some underpaid lab assistant, on their 1000th time ferrying bats in and out of cages, cleaning shit, slacked on a particular day. Your 1000th time flipping that Wendy’s burger, and it drops to the floor, and you wipe it off and say ‘fuck it’ and put it on the bun.

Simple as that. No mega conspiracy.

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