I think a problem with this kind of question is that it requires thinking about counterfactuals. You can't say "this patent is good" without thinking about what would have happened if it had not been granted.
Ask HN: What are some examples of software patents used for good?
21–30 of 51 posts
Re: Ask HN: What are some examples of software patents used for good?
#22How about the Google Pagerank patent?
http://www.google.com/patents?vid=6285999
It explains the primary algorithm behind Google Search. I suppose it could have been kept as a trade secret all these years, if not for the patent system.
Re: Ask HN: What are some examples of software patents used for good?
#23Honestly (and depressingly) I think the best examples of software patents used for good are the software patents written to protect from exploitation... by the software patent system - i.e. Creative Commons, GPLv2, BSD Licence, ...
The GPL, BSD, etc. licenses are licenses, not software patents. I can't think of a good software patent. It's not a software patent, but there was IBM's attempt to patent patent trolling which was a rather keen bit of legal satire. I think it actually failed in the face of all that prior art, but I might be confusing that patent application with another one.
You guys are right, sorry. Total absent-minded mistake.
Re: Ask HN: What are some examples of software patents used for good?
#24It's a bit naive to try to judge patents in terms of some dichotomy between good patents and bad patents. In principle, patents aren't really good or evil. They're just part of running a business. That said, the patent system itself can have good or evil effects on society.
Re: Ask HN: What are some examples of software patents used for good?
#25How about the Google Pagerank patent? http://www.google.com/patents?vid=6285999 It explains the primary algorithm behind Google Search. I suppose it could have been kept as a trade secret all these years, if not for the patent system.
It might have, but it is very likely it would have been published in an academic paper anyhow (like it actually has).
And in any case, no one actually reads software patents (lawyers tell you not to!), so even if it was patented but not published or otherwise documented, no one would have known about it.
While the PageRank patent is definitely not a trivial patent - unlike the vast majority of software patents - it still isn't an example of a patent used for good.
Re: Ask HN: What are some examples of software patents used for good?
#26An interesting view that I got from someone who patents technologies working at a big company, was that software patents tend to protect yourself (the company) from getting sued by other patent trolls!
No, software patents cannot protect you from patent trolls.
Patent trolls by definition do not produce any actual products. They only sue. Any patents you have are therefore no defense against them.
A worrying development is trolling by proxy - a real company selling its patents to a patent troll. This allows the real company to extort money through its patents, without the risk of a countersuit, since the patent troll is doing the actual suing.
Re: Ask HN: What are some examples of software patents used for good?
#27MP3? It allowed the Fraunhofer Institute to capitalize on their audio research.
Whether that is good or bad is debatable, but at least it's no trivial patent.
Indeed, the MP3 patents and a small number of similar ones are the only good examples of nontrivial software patents. They are, sadly, a tiny fraction of all software patents.
Regarding whether the MP3 patents were a good thing or not, that is as you say debatable. It made developing the technology profitable, but it also created barriers to interoperability - for example, it is problematic for open source operating systems to support MP3s, and they are forced to do various workarounds of dubious legality. Compare this to the situation on the Web: Anyone can write a web browser, without having to pay anyone else.
Re: Ask HN: What are some examples of software patents used for good?
#28How about the Google Pagerank patent? http://www.google.com/patents?vid=6285999 It explains the primary algorithm behind Google Search. I suppose it could have been kept as a trade secret all these years, if not for the patent system.
It might have, but it is very likely it would have been published in an academic paper anyhow (like it actually has). And in any case, no one actually reads software patents (lawyers tell you not to!), so even if it was patented but not published or otherwise documented, no one would have known about it. While the PageRank patent is definitely not a trivial patent - unlike the vast majority of software patents - it s…
>> "it still isn't an example of a patent used for good"
What do you mean by good, then? It has generated lots of cash for Google and thus provided lots of jobs.
Re: Ask HN: What are some examples of software patents used for good?
#29Earlier quoted context omitted.
The GPL, BSD, etc. licenses are licenses, not software patents. I can't think of a good software patent. It's not a software patent, but there was IBM's attempt to patent patent trolling which was a rather keen bit of legal satire. I think it actually failed in the face of all that prior art, but I might be confusing that patent application with another one.
You guys are right, sorry. Total absent-minded mistake.
To be fair, I can't really answer the original question either.
I don't really like the i4i case, though it's probably at least closer to an answer. Microsoft got what it deserved because it partnered with i4i, then screwed them. There should have been non-patent means of getting justice in a case like that, though, so I can hardly count that as something good about software patents.
Re: Ask HN: What are some examples of software patents used for good?
#30An interesting view that I got from someone who patents technologies working at a big company, was that software patents tend to protect yourself (the company) from getting sued by other patent trolls!
No, software patents cannot protect you from patent trolls. Patent trolls by definition do not produce any actual products. They only sue. Any patents you have are therefore no defense against them. A worrying development is trolling by proxy - a real company selling its patents to a patent troll. This allows the real company to extort money through its patents, without the risk of a countersuit, since the patent tro…
I believe he is talking about the kind of mutually assured destruction that keep companies like Apple, Microsoft, Google, and IBM from suing each other. They all hold a ton of patents, and while they may infringe on each others patents from time to time, they keep it to a minimum and nobody pursues it due to the possibility of retaliatory patent action where both parties lose. Much like the Cold War.