Earlier quoted context omitted.
You're complaining that hundreds of thousands of taxpayer dollars weren't spent arguing with 15 year-old trolls on the internet?
Freedom of speech is the fundamental right from which all other rights derive and upon which all liberty depends. What right does anyone have to deny the right to speech simply because the speaker happens to be "15?" What if the next Einstein or Shakespeare or Galileo are being silenced and their genius blotted out forever in the name of ageism? What is a "troll?" Who gets to define that term? By what basis is a "tro…
A Group Is Its Own Worst Enemy (2003)
61–68 of 68 posts
Re: A Group Is Its Own Worst Enemy (2003)
#62Earlier quoted context omitted.
And the next paragraph from that: "But that was a requirement. In order to defend themselves against being overrun, that was something that they needed to have that they didn't have, and as a result, they simply shut the site down." They didn't want to block anyone, so they deleted it. That's why we can't have nice things.
It's unfortunate they chose to engage in mass self-deplatforming rather than simply engage in vigorous debate or attempt to open a dialog and empathize with the views of those they considered guilty of thoughtcrime. Did no one tell them that free speech means nothing if it doesn't apply to the speech we find most objectionable? That sunlight, not censorship, is the best disinfectant? First they came for the shitposte…
Re: A Group Is Its Own Worst Enemy (2003)
#63Earlier quoted context omitted.
The outgroup defines the ingroup.
My dad teaches a world religion class and does a unit on religious restrictions (kosher, halal, etc.). He says one of the hardest things to get across to people, even non-religious people, is that rule systems like these are not about practical considerations, they are about defining who is "in" and who is "out". In a time where religion is no longer analogous with ethnicity, this is just not something people really…
Re: A Group Is Its Own Worst Enemy (2003)
#64Earlier quoted context omitted.
> Below a certain size, everything fuses, joins, or accumulates. But beyond a certain size,everything collapses or explodes I suppose that (quasi) monopolists like Google, Amazon, and Apple are still to small for that thesis?
Chat services usually rot and go the way of MySpace. Remember cuseeme, aol instant messenger, icq, irc, Skype, Skype for business, Lynq, paltalk, Facebook messenger, tivejo, … Facebook was originally where cool kids hang out now grandma is on it. Facebook is always buying a competitor or imitating one or aiming a service at really young kids to stay ahead of the rot.
If they had embraced their popularity and found a different way to monetize, that thing might still be with us today.
Re: A Group Is Its Own Worst Enemy (2003)
#65Is there a TL;DR?
From the conclusion, "Writing social software is hard. And, as I said, the act of writing social software is more like the work of an economist or a political scientist. And the act of hosting social software... is more like a relationship of landlords to tenants than owners to boxes in a warehouse. The people using your software, even if you own it and pay for it, have rights and will behave as if they have rights.…
Re: A Group Is Its Own Worst Enemy (2003)
#66> I was talking to Stewart Butterfield about the chat application they're trying here. I said "Hey, how's that going?" He said: "Well, we only had the idea for it two weeks ago. So this is the launch." When you can go from "Hey, I've got an idea" to "Let's launch this in front of a few hundred serious geeks and see how it works," that suggests that there's a platform there that is letting people do some really interesting things really quickly.
This was 2003, and Butterfield is still turning side tools from MMOs you never heard of into genre defining brands.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stewart_Butterfield#Ludicorp_a...
Re: A Group Is Its Own Worst Enemy (2003)
#67What a great nugget: > I was talking to Stewart Butterfield about the chat application they're trying here. I said "Hey, how's that going?" He said: "Well, we only had the idea for it two weeks ago. So this is the launch." When you can go from "Hey, I've got an idea" to "Let's launch this in front of a few hundred serious geeks and see how it works," that suggests that there's a platform there that is letting people…
Re: A Group Is Its Own Worst Enemy (2003)
#68Earlier quoted context omitted.
IRC never totally died. It's decentralized, free software, and has better clients than anything newer (XMPP, Matrix). I'm in ~100 channels across a few networks. It's also what Twitch chat uses, and you can connect to Twitch chats from an IRC client. I think the centralized proprietary stuff is bound to die. It was never really built to last. AIM and MSN are truly dead. Hopefully Discord dies someday as well.
May you define what you mean by "better"
Scriptability in irssi is really nice. I can run shell commands from it and post the output as a message. This lets me do stuff like use a sleep for a specified amount of time and then an echo for my actual message. Combined with a couple variables and an alias, I can type /se (for sleep echo) plus "2h" or similar for the time and then my message to send a message to that window in that amount of time. Great for if my friend just went to sleep and I trust he's more likely to read a message that arrives while he's there than read the whole backlog I left him.
Logs are a big thing. I have nice plaintext logs from irssi. I can grep them, view them in less and jump around, and so on. It's fast, goes back really far, and I always find stuff I'm looking for and trying to reference. Newer stuff tends to have a built-in client search and the logs are hidden away somewhere and often a sql database or some other inaccessible thing. This is a massive downgrade. Especially with how slow in-client searches always are.
It's easy to focus on stuff like URL previews, attachments/inline images, encryption, and so on when talking about XMPP and Matrix and other newer stuff, but these things aren't a straight upgrade. I use them all quite heavily, I'm not avoiding them because they're worse, I'm just very often sad about it. Basically they reinvent the wheel and do it worse, then tack the new stuff on top. It doesn't feel like a better IRC client, it feels like its own thing, and that thing isn't good.
The best Matrix experience I had was using a weechat plugin. It was very buggy and would take several tries to login, occasionally log me out, and these days it's unusable and my whole weechat install is broken... However, when it worked, I had a lot of the stuff I get with irssi "for free" because weechat is an IRC client. I could sort my windows manually and jump around quickly, logs were plaintext and easy to work with. You can even hide buffers for rooms you don't want to see, and you can still jump to them with the go plugin when they're hidden.
There's also the benefit that comes with TUI stuff where I can run it on my server and attach from my PC or phone seamlessly and have the same real client instead of a lesser mobile client that works differently, but this is not the most important feature at all. You could make a graphical program with most of the nice things about irssi in it. You can kinda see this philosophy with how emacs as a gui is like the terminal emacs, except it has support for more colors, multiple fonts, selecting text from adjacent split windows more easily (the separators aren't literal text in a gui), etc. It's definitely rare for GUI stuff to be as good as TUI, but it's not impossible.