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Condo boards everywhere are unprepared for serious repairs

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Re: Condo boards everywhere are unprepared for serious repairs

#51

Post by lotsofpulp »

abeppu wrote: post #13
glasss wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I imagine the phenomenon is due to multiple people being responsible but no singular person being accountable. There is probably a board director / president that SHOULD be accountable, but it's easy for them to either consciously or subconsciously blame the rest of their board for inaction. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Responsibility_assignment_matr...

Well, and: - Long term problems can outlast the tenure of any board member. - Board members are volunteering. What sort of "accountability" is appropriate? Can you pin millions in liability on whichever unit owner threw their hat into an election in the year preceding some terrible outcome? Why would anyone be a board member then?

See underfunded retirement benefits for government employees and unmaintained infrastructure.

Even setting aside the issue of incentives in the short term versus long term, by the time leaders and voters will be gone, the voters are usually not willing to pay higher taxes or condo fees, nor are they even in a position to properly evaluate and prioritize problems.

Re: Condo boards everywhere are unprepared for serious repairs

#52

Post by MattGaiser »

h2odragon wrote: post #33
breck wrote: post #26

This has been such a tragic story to follow. Especially as they pull children out of there. I'm not a civil engineer, but have been on those subreddits and blogs reading about the investigation. Curious if anyone knows: is there an equivalent of a "blackbox" data recorder for tall buildings like this? If not, should there be? Would there have been signals given off from the columns that may have forewarned of disaste…

The columns gave off signals; there's pictures from the reports of the concrete cracking and rusting rebar. There wasn't any need for fancier sensors and data recording technology than was used.

Reminds me of that West Wing episode and the parable of the man who lived by the river.

"I sent you rust, cracks, and an engineers report, and your building still fell down."

Re: Condo boards everywhere are unprepared for serious repairs

#53

Post by dstick »

giantg2 wrote: post #35
phlipski wrote: post #7

I sat on my condo board for a decade and was president for two years. My experience is that the board is not the problem - the non board sitting owners are. Our complex was comprised of 5 separate 3 story buildings. Three of those building had bad water leaking problems but when we tried to raise money for repairs - the people who weren't suffering any interior water damage wouldn't vote yes. Many buyers don't read t…

"Nobody wants to pay for what is a collective problem." Yet they choose to live in a collective structure. It's essentially another level of government entered into via contract. Maybe they should choose to live in an independent residence if they didn't want that.

It is very similar to taxes or universal healthcare in that way. It’s not your problem, until it is.

Re: Condo boards everywhere are unprepared for serious repairs

#54

Post by ashtonkem »

015UUZn8aEvW wrote: post #29

It’s not clear that condo units have higher long-term capex costs than single-family homes; arguably economies of scale make their capex lower as a percentage of home value. So the problem isn’t a problem of cost per se, it’s a collective action problem. The issue is that the buyers of condo units don’t really pay much attention to the condo association’s reserve balance. A current owner who contributes $1 to the res…

Bigger condos often include shared facilities and industrial scale equipment that blurs that picture a lot. Not having a pool probably tips the scale in favor of individual houses in many cases.

The lowest cost is probably shorter condo buildings without pools. These won’t include a lot of extra equipment that detached houses don’t use, can use closer to standard sized HVAC and water systems, and benefit from increased economies of scale over detached single family dwellings.

Re: Condo boards everywhere are unprepared for serious repairs

#55

Post by mooreds »

phlipski wrote: post #7

I sat on my condo board for a decade and was president for two years. My experience is that the board is not the problem - the non board sitting owners are. Our complex was comprised of 5 separate 3 story buildings. Three of those building had bad water leaking problems but when we tried to raise money for repairs - the people who weren't suffering any interior water damage wouldn't vote yes. Many buyers don't read t…

I was on a condo board for two years. We had regular reserve studies and raised dues almost every single year (1-5%). When I talked to other homeowners and prospective home buyers, they always said "seems like dues are pretty high for that complex". It isn't fun to pay dues that are ~50% of your mortgage payment.

But we were able to pay for repaving the parking lot (5 figure project, I think, I was off the board by then) and replacing two elevators (6 figure projects) without a special assessment.

I would much much rather have dues increase regularly and not have special assessments than the reverse. Deferred maintenance is not good (and obviously can be dangerous). It's one thing when it is happening at a single family home, where all the risk and reward are localized. But when it happens at the group level, being proactive is a huge win, even when it is painful.

Re: Condo boards everywhere are unprepared for serious repairs

#56

Post by markus_zhang »

We are facing the same issue (Montreal, pre-WW2 era condo building).

I think the key is to:

1 - Gather some condo owners who are serious about the issue and want to help so that board doesn't get into a perpetual persuation war with the owners.

2 - Be transparent with costs and contracts. Yeah I get it that in construction there is a huge variance on the same job (say $5,000 and $30,000 for the same job and laymen can't tell the difference and in fact the $5,000 one might be better in quality).

3 - Hire a good administration company who is quick to response. his is optional if someone on the board can do the admin job but since everyone is working it's difficult to find such guy.

Re: Condo boards everywhere are unprepared for serious repairs

#57

Post by ashtonkem »

entropicdrifter wrote: post #49
giantg2 wrote: post #32

"Condo boards everywhere are unprepared for serious repairs" As are local governments, county governments, and state governments unless they get a big grant from the level of government above them. Even federal infrastructure is in disrepair. My locality had to redo the main street and the water and sewer lines under it. We had to get a grant from the state and they also put a 40% surcharge on our water bills to pay…

IMO the headline should say, "Years of corporate bailouts, military bloat and tax cuts have devastated the US's ability to maintain even the most basic of infrastructure"

Plus really bad assumptions about how long reinforced concrete lasts, despite clear evidence that it is actually a short lived substance.

Re: Condo boards everywhere are unprepared for serious repairs

#58

Post by mooreds »

breck wrote: post #10
phlipski wrote: post #7

I sat on my condo board for a decade and was president for two years. My experience is that the board is not the problem - the non board sitting owners are. Our complex was comprised of 5 separate 3 story buildings. Three of those building had bad water leaking problems but when we tried to raise money for repairs - the people who weren't suffering any interior water damage wouldn't vote yes. Many buyers don't read t…

We recently bought a condo after renting in the building for three years. The board, management and staff of our building are phenomenal—an inside bit of information we knew from having lived here. We looked at a large number of buildings in the area, and was surprised that maybe 1% of the information you need to assess board/management competence is available online. Generally we'd have to do our own DD talking to p…

All I want is for someone to build a HOA portal that isn't horrible. The two I've had experience with were old old school, slow, and super painful.

Re: Condo boards everywhere are unprepared for serious repairs

#59

Post by zippergz »

015UUZn8aEvW wrote: post #29

It’s not clear that condo units have higher long-term capex costs than single-family homes; arguably economies of scale make their capex lower as a percentage of home value. So the problem isn’t a problem of cost per se, it’s a collective action problem. The issue is that the buyers of condo units don’t really pay much attention to the condo association’s reserve balance. A current owner who contributes $1 to the res…

Right. As the owner of a single-family home, I control my destiny. Yes, I may pay more dollars to replace my roof than I would pay to replace the roof on a condo building. But I am in complete control of when it happens, who does it, and how it is done. In a condo building, I am at the mercy of my neighbors to agree to the repair and how it is done. And in any sufficiently large association, there will be at least a handful of people who will fight any expenditure at all (yes, this is rational for short-term owners, but in my experience it tended to be the long-time residents who were the loudest complainers...).

Frankly, I don't have enough faith in humanity to put this kind of trust in a bunch of strangers.

Re: Condo boards everywhere are unprepared for serious repairs

#60

Post by lotsofpulp »

ceejayoz wrote: post #39
akudha wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Japanese are known to think very long term as well

Housing is a big exception to this. https://www.theguardian.com/cities/2017/nov/16/japan-reusabl... > Unlike in other countries, Japanese homes gradually depreciate over time, becoming completely valueless within 20 or 30 years. When someone moves out of a home or dies, the house, unlike the land it sits on, has no resale value and is typically demolished. This scrap-and-build approach is a quirk of the Japanese hous…

I do not think that is incongruent to thinking long term.

Creating unnecessarily resilient buildings is a misallocation or resources and a problem if it’s own.

If you think there will be volatility in the long term, then investing in flexibility is the right long term play.

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