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When Orcs Were Real

treeofwoe.substack.com

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Re: When Orcs Were Real

#131

Post by saalweachter »

DoingIsLearning wrote: post #74
henearkr wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is what I thought when was evoked cannibalism: what if those were the traces of sapiens festing of neanderthalis (and not neanderthalis eating neanderthalis, as seems to be supposed in the text)?

As far as I understand Neanderthal genes in Humans don't actually exist in the Y chromosome. That means that only female Neanderthals transmitted their genes down the Sapiens gene tree. This could mean all sort of things. Maybe Neanderthal Males with Female Humans didn't generate viable off-spring. Maybe Our selection process favored non-Neanderthal genes and it was phased out of the Y chromosome gene pool? Maybe as…

Eh, I'd keep "that Y-line just didn't survive the last N0,000 years" as the default assumption.

Just out of curiosity do you know if the Neanderthal mitochondrial line survives in humans today?

Re: When Orcs Were Real

#132

Post by abakker »

midjji wrote: post #94

It makes for a good story to be sure, but probably little else. Much like the popular myth of the noble savage influencing academics of the time, contemporary popular disdain for the people and cultures of the past colors many contemporary academics. Another weird thing, So we have found evidence of the feathers of dinosaurs, but not the fur of something from 40k years ago? that seems rather unlikely. In this case, t…

I always personally thought descriptions of Grendel were very much that of a silverback gorilla. Fangs, Fur, Loping gait, strength. Its a pretty good image.

Re: When Orcs Were Real

#133

Post by feliyur »

Humans have historically had much to fear from furry things with large teeth, so don't need to resort to questionable theories.

The word "Orc" itself used to refer to Norse invaders, who did much of the same stuff "real" orcs do and unfortunately more (which is also directly related to what is now called xenophobia, or intolerance to foreigners and their culture).

So a strange-looking humanoid with traits of a predatory animal is a natural monster.

Re: When Orcs Were Real

#135

Post by abakker »

Mikhail_Edoshin wrote: post #66
BiteCode_dev wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I always though that dragons were also sourced from a vague genetic memory passed down from very remote ancestors that met dino descendants.

Chinese dragons may be a better depiction of what could be the source of the myth. A Chinese dragon is like a flying snake, although I'm not sure they ascribe fire-breathing to it. But if you combine a flying snake and fire-breathing then there was an ancient device that looked very much like such a creature. Some ancient armies used long cloth bags as flags or banners, to impress the enemies or maybe to signal the p…

13th warrior?

Re: When Orcs Were Real

#136

Post by lalaithion »

peeters wrote: post #93

So even if we accept everything being said of the Neanderthals, this is left completely undefended: > Why does every culture have legends of monstrous humanoids, and why are they are always depicted as fearsome and dangerous? Because the legends were real. The orcs were real. Is the author really suggesting that these stories are the product of an unbroken chain of 50,000 years of oral tradition? If not, what do even…

Australian oral history has made well-tested geographical depictions that go back 10,000 years, so it's not inconceivable that myths and stories could have influences 50,0000 years ago.

Re: When Orcs Were Real

#137

Post by jgilias »

jillesvangurp wrote: post #128
rebuilder wrote: post #10

Why do we have to posit non-human monsters as explanations for these myths? After all, there were (and still are) real monsters out there that would kill, rape, kidnap and torture people - people from other communities. Strange danger was serious business back in the day, why could that not evolve into all kinds of boogeymen?

Supplement the list provided in the article by more modern boogeymen such as Negroes, Jews, Arabs, etc. and you have a nice explanation of recent history. I realize this may be deeply offensive to some of the readership here and emphasize that I don't look at the world in these terms. However, recent history is full of people that actually do demonize these groups of people; no matter how irrational that is. Nothing…

We should be careful not to chastise people from the past from the viewpoint of our comfy and safe lives. It's easy to sneer at our ability to divide people into 'us' versus 'them' over meaningless differences, when it's not you worrying about a night raid where you get scalped and your wife raped.

Re: When Orcs Were Real

#140

Post by simonh »

We've got plenty of examples of ordinary humans in documented history being mistaken for gods or supernatural beings. People report seeing ghosts, monsters, aliens and such all the time even now. There are low budget documentary TV shows about these sightings on the schedule constantly.
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