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Student Loans. Medical Debt. Criminal Justice Fees. Cancel It All.

nytimes.com

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Re: Student Loans. Medical Debt. Criminal Justice Fees. Cancel It All.

#81

Post by burnished »

floor2 wrote: post #13

The terminology of "cancelling" the debt is the most dishonest, twisted abuse of the English language. There is no "cancelling" debt. There's only forcing other people to pay. The incentives here are entirely backwards. All the people who made good decisions around cost-benefit of their education, all the people who made frugal choices, all the people who worked hard for the delayed gratification of their long-term p…

Think you're a little mixed up if you think everyone in serious student debt spent those years partying and not studying.

Re: Student Loans. Medical Debt. Criminal Justice Fees. Cancel It All.

#82

Post by handrous »

xienze wrote: post #66
bluGill wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My retirement is invested into a large collection of companies, some of which own these loans. I fully expect that this will cost me. If I had instead not invested for my future and just partied hard I'd be better off.

Yep, your 401k will be indirectly affected by this. The real fun starts 20-ish years down the line when our elected officials decide to directly seize 401k assets in the name of "equity."

20-ish years from now the average amount of money in a retirement account ought to be in steep decline, year over year. So the good news is they won't be a very attractive target. The bad news is we're going to have a retirement crisis on top of whatever crisis 20 more years of healthcare cost increases causes (assuming we don't fix that between now and then—call it 50/50 odds, because I'm an optimist).

Re: Student Loans. Medical Debt. Criminal Justice Fees. Cancel It All.

#83

Post by thebean11 »

dragonwriter wrote: post #78
floor2 wrote: post #13

The terminology of "cancelling" the debt is the most dishonest, twisted abuse of the English language. There is no "cancelling" debt. There's only forcing other people to pay. The incentives here are entirely backwards. All the people who made good decisions around cost-benefit of their education, all the people who made frugal choices, all the people who worked hard for the delayed gratification of their long-term p…

> There is no "cancelling" debt. There's only forcing other people to pay. No, there is actually cancelling debt. There is also forcing someone else to pay, but that’s a different thing. Its probably the case that only some (such as government-held portion) of the debt at issue could Constitutionally be cancelled, in the strict sense, though. > The incentives here are entirely backwards. Because its not (unlike, say,…

> Because its not... an ongoing thing available to people in the future

So the debt gets cancelled then banks and institutions restart their vicious cycle of predatory education price and predatory education loans?

What exactly is the goal here?

Re: Student Loans. Medical Debt. Criminal Justice Fees. Cancel It All.

#84

Post by hpoe »

thatfrenchguy wrote: post #59
hpoe wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well it would result in deflation because $1,500,000,000 disappears from the economy overnight. This means that the money supply shrinks and that kicks of a deflationary cycle.

I would argue this would actually cause inflation: all of those folks who have to pay for those student loans will start buying more goods, houses and services, increasing demand, which could increase prices in turn.

Well you would be wrong. Inflation doesn't just happen because people are buying more things. Inflation occurs when more money is brought into the system but the amount of goods remains constant.

Re: Student Loans. Medical Debt. Criminal Justice Fees. Cancel It All.

#85

Post by petermcneeley »

While open to interpretation I think some of the famous lines in "The Matrix" are actually about debt.

- On modern debt servitude and having debt at the start of adult life "That you are a slave, Neo. Like everyone else you were born into bondage. Into a prison that you cannot taste or see or touch. A prison for your mind."

- On Usury and high interest credit. "What is the matrix? Control... To turn the human body into this" * holds up a battery

Re: Student Loans. Medical Debt. Criminal Justice Fees. Cancel It All.

#86

Post by willyg123 »

dragonwriter wrote: post #78
floor2 wrote: post #13

The terminology of "cancelling" the debt is the most dishonest, twisted abuse of the English language. There is no "cancelling" debt. There's only forcing other people to pay. The incentives here are entirely backwards. All the people who made good decisions around cost-benefit of their education, all the people who made frugal choices, all the people who worked hard for the delayed gratification of their long-term p…

> There is no "cancelling" debt. There's only forcing other people to pay. No, there is actually cancelling debt. There is also forcing someone else to pay, but that’s a different thing. Its probably the case that only some (such as government-held portion) of the debt at issue could Constitutionally be cancelled, in the strict sense, though. > The incentives here are entirely backwards. Because its not (unlike, say,…

> No, there is actually cancelling debt. There is also forcing someone else to pay, but that’s a different thing.

How are these different things?

-Money was disbursed to the university. That money came from somewhere!

-If the loan gets canceled and the student does not pay it back, those who contributed the disbursed the money are the ones being forced to pay.

Re: Student Loans. Medical Debt. Criminal Justice Fees. Cancel It All.

#87

Post by Alekhine »

floor2 wrote: post #13

The terminology of "cancelling" the debt is the most dishonest, twisted abuse of the English language. There is no "cancelling" debt. There's only forcing other people to pay. The incentives here are entirely backwards. All the people who made good decisions around cost-benefit of their education, all the people who made frugal choices, all the people who worked hard for the delayed gratification of their long-term p…

"People have suffered, therefore we must continue to make people suffer so the previous suffering wasn't for nothing."

You can say I'm straw-maning, but it's hard to see your argument as anything else.

Re: Student Loans. Medical Debt. Criminal Justice Fees. Cancel It All.

#88

Post by rhino369 »

newaccount2021 wrote: post #8
theandrewbailey wrote: post #7

Cancelling student debt won't solve the student debt problem, unless we stop giving out student loans.

Its worse than that, its a lottery. Those graduates who have already paid off their debt, lose. Those soon-to-be students who have to pay high tuition, also lose. Indeed, since colleges will see loan forgiveness as an option, tuitions will rise.

Right, I paid off a balance of 260k dollars in student loans. Former classmates, who make exactly the same amount of money, who instead used their salaries to buy a house get a windfall?

How is that good policy?

Our current system already allows for cancellation for low income individuals.

This is subsidy for the upper half of the middle class.

Re: Student Loans. Medical Debt. Criminal Justice Fees. Cancel It All.

#90

Post by throwawaycities »

floor2 wrote: post #13

The terminology of "cancelling" the debt is the most dishonest, twisted abuse of the English language. There is no "cancelling" debt. There's only forcing other people to pay. The incentives here are entirely backwards. All the people who made good decisions around cost-benefit of their education, all the people who made frugal choices, all the people who worked hard for the delayed gratification of their long-term p…

> The incentives here are entirely backwards. All the people who made good decisions…

This was the political talking point that has repeatedly been brought up in the media in the last 2 years with all the student loan talk and it has successfully gotten Biden to back off cancellation of up to $50k for every loan.

There is just something very “Karen” about wanting someone else to suffer because you did, especially premised on the basis that you did everything right and they did everything wrong.

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