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Google reports soaring attrition among Black women

reuters.com

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Re: Google reports soaring attrition among Black women

#191

Post by tester756 »

vmception wrote: post #116
tester34 wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Black people are currently less educated as a result of systemic racism than their Asain and white counterparts. but why? end exams are standarized and in my opinion fair

> end exams are standarized and in my opinion fair there is actually a lot of ongoing discussion about that and there is no resolved consensus on your opinion

and what arguments are that this process is not fair?

current approach challenges pure intellectual output, any other way implies bias which current system strongly avoids

Re: Google reports soaring attrition among Black women

#192

Post by sokoloff »

finnthehuman wrote: post #177
sokoloff wrote: post #144

Earlier quoted context omitted.

By fringe backlash, I meant to reference programs like "Girls who code", "Black Girls Code", internship programs for under-represented groups, and the like. I'm 100% supportive of these programs, while being opposed to quota-based hiring models.

Aren't discriminatory programs insulting to the intelligence the youth? And communicates to them that cultural stereotypes aren't just stereotypes, they're truths that need intervention programs to fix? Isn't it a put-down to tell the targeted group that they need the extra help the program is meant to deliver? Isn't it a disrespect to someone who wants the thing a program aims to deliver, but isn't part of the targe…

I think it depends. If there's some cultural or expectations bias that is self-reinforcing to reduce the number of women who consider tech (to include their peers thinking that tech isn't cool/is nerdy/whatever), I think these programs are a fantastic way to interrupt that cycle. I don't see it as insulting to their intelligence in any way, but maybe I'm not understanding your concern properly.

Re: Google reports soaring attrition among Black women

#193

Post by SuoDuanDao »

noutella wrote: post #47

How incredibly weird is it to witness American schizophrenia* when it comes to races (and gender) from a non-american perspective. "Black+", "Latinx+", "LGBTTQQIAAP". Putting people in smaller and smaller box in the name of equality and diversity. I am the only one to feel this is coming to an absurd point ? I'm not an alt-right fan, nor would I vote Republican if I could, I'm a leftist in what's considered a traditi…

You're definitely not the only one, but I think it's staying around because of a real societal need. The civil rights era was a recognition that background wasn't a valid basis on which to stereotype strangers. In the intervening decades, we mostly stereotyped strangers based on how they presented themselves, with a few recognisable 'types' of people that had little variation within their clades.

Then the internet happened and society fractured along personal interest, whatever one is into now there are dozens of people with the same interest online. It became impossible to distinguish people on the basis of fashion either.

But to interact with strangers, we need some way to stereotype them, and so intersectionalism has tried to fill that gap. It won't work in its current form because nobody who presumes to declare on behalf of an identity group as to what is a proper way to treat members of that identity group is actually representative of any group. But the need to stereotype strangers somehow remains, so social offerings like this will continue to be brought forward.

Re: Google reports soaring attrition among Black women

#194

Post by padastra »

l33t2328 wrote: post #20
vmception wrote: post #2

> The company nearly doubled the number of Black+ people in U.S. leadership to 7.1% last year It’s cool they’ve been able to find qualified people, taking a long time to fill those roles but very nice they are doing it! They will more adequately address additional markets with this talent gravitational pull. What is the percentage of Black+ in the population? The US census doesn’t have a + section, so we can deduce t…

Black people are currently less educated as a result of systemic racism than their Asain and white counterparts. That would make achieving 12% leadership particularly difficult, since black people are on average less qualified(on paper, at least) relative to applicants from other races.

Sorry, people are downvoting this because it is out of the Overton window of acceptable discourse, and the fact that it happens to be true is irrelevant.

Re: Google reports soaring attrition among Black women

#195

Post by fennecfoxen »

noutella wrote: post #47

How incredibly weird is it to witness American schizophrenia* when it comes to races (and gender) from a non-american perspective. "Black+", "Latinx+", "LGBTTQQIAAP". Putting people in smaller and smaller box in the name of equality and diversity. I am the only one to feel this is coming to an absurd point ? I'm not an alt-right fan, nor would I vote Republican if I could, I'm a leftist in what's considered a traditi…

A fun exercise for you! Next time you hear about "diversity and inclusion," sit back to consider what the company in question actually does to promote an atmosphere of inclusion. Is it a slack message about celebrating XYZ Group Week, in the midst of an atmosphere where dissent is persecuted?

Re: Google reports soaring attrition among Black women

#196

Post by enumjorge »

tomp wrote: post #121
sokoloff wrote: post #32

> some people from underrepresented backgrounds have said they continue to feel unwelcome in the tech industry, and they also remain high in demand elsewhere as companies compete to increase diversity. This is dangerous territory to comment on perhaps, but it seems like many policies which seek to boost individual company population ratios to be significantly higher than the comparable tech-industry ratios are prone…

> We do have a diversity problem in tech, no doubt. We should be a bit more exact. We do not have a under representation problem in tech, but a mis representation problem. There’s a lot of minorities that are well-, even over-represented - e.g. Asians, Russian immigrants, autists, people without formal education, … I’m guessing it’s one of the most welcoming and meritocratic industries! But those aren’t the “right” m…

> I’m guessing it’s one of the most welcoming and meritocratic industries!

And I’m guessing you’re not one of the affected minorities. Otherwise you might see that “the system works for this subset of people so it must be working for everyone” is a flawed and untrue argument, at least in tech.

People pushing for more equal treatment of certain minorities didn’t happen out of the blue. There’s a long history of certain subgroups getting passed up during interviews, underpaid, getting passed up for promotions, etc. As an example an ex-colleague had a really hard time landing his first job in the industry. No one would call him back. He wondered whether his Hispanic sounding name was hurting his chances, so he anglicized it and tried again. He said it was like night and day. He found a job soon after. Perhaps you haven’t witnessed something like this first or second hand.

I think many companies are butchering their diversity recruiting efforts. They try to “fix” the issue with superficial and inefficient policies. But the problem they’re attempting to address is very real.

Re: Google reports soaring attrition among Black women

#197

Post by Invictus0 »

lunfard00 wrote: post #183
noutella wrote: post #47

How incredibly weird is it to witness American schizophrenia* when it comes to races (and gender) from a non-american perspective. "Black+", "Latinx+", "LGBTTQQIAAP". Putting people in smaller and smaller box in the name of equality and diversity. I am the only one to feel this is coming to an absurd point ? I'm not an alt-right fan, nor would I vote Republican if I could, I'm a leftist in what's considered a traditi…

It is super irritating to apply to american companies, most of them ask for your race (optional input) and list latin and white as different options. I am white as milk from a Latin America country I dont know what I am suppose to complete. I consider myself latin but companies may think I am not brown enough to fit the category.

That form is mandated by the government, not the company. Anyone with a Spanish speaking heritage is considered to be hispanic.

Re: Google reports soaring attrition among Black women

#198

Post by SuoDuanDao »

mb7733 wrote: post #186
noutella wrote: post #47

How incredibly weird is it to witness American schizophrenia* when it comes to races (and gender) from a non-american perspective. "Black+", "Latinx+", "LGBTTQQIAAP". Putting people in smaller and smaller box in the name of equality and diversity. I am the only one to feel this is coming to an absurd point ? I'm not an alt-right fan, nor would I vote Republican if I could, I'm a leftist in what's considered a traditi…

It wasn't abelist but I don't understand the analogy with schizophrenia.

Schizophrenia is characterised by a difficulty properly categorising and integrating experiences, so it actually seems like a fairly good analogy.

Re: Google reports soaring attrition among Black women

#199

Post by lunfard00 »

Invictus0 wrote: post #197
lunfard00 wrote: post #183

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is super irritating to apply to american companies, most of them ask for your race (optional input) and list latin and white as different options. I am white as milk from a Latin America country I dont know what I am suppose to complete. I consider myself latin but companies may think I am not brown enough to fit the category.

That form is mandated by the government, not the company. Anyone with a Spanish speaking heritage is considered to be hispanic.

oh that is nice to know, thanks

Re: Google reports soaring attrition among Black women

#200

Post by fennecfoxen »

blueflow wrote: post #11
bko wrote: post #3

What is Black+ and Latinx+? This is the first time I'm hearing this term and can't find anything about it in the report or online.

In the anglosphere (and especially in the US), the ethnic background of a person is given much attention. They have very odd labels with the intent to be more inclusive towards the "corner cases". The 'x' probably stands as a placeholder for 'o' and 'a' to capture both the male and female version. This seems to be a oddity of the english-speaking cultures and not very relevant to other parts of the world.

"Latinx" is especially great because it sends such a clear message: "We wish to use this ethnic group to make us look like we're concerned about the problems social justice, but we don't actually respect that 97% of the people we're describing don't use that term or want that term."
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