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Student Loans. Medical Debt. Criminal Justice Fees. Cancel It All.

nytimes.com

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Re: Student Loans. Medical Debt. Criminal Justice Fees. Cancel It All.

#31

Post by HarryHirsch »

rejectedandsad wrote: post #16

Unlike the rest student loans are taken out by choice (you can’t accidentally be hit by a university or be mistakenly accepted to an expensive school). I don’t see why people that made bad choices should be bailed out while I made better choices yet continue to suffer.

You know, there's the local state college here that for all practical purposes has open admission. You can see the advertising up and down the highway. The local kids (black and white, but mostly black) try to get a nursing degree but 70 % fail out. There's verious reasons, crap highschool, need to work to support themselves, also stupidity. They could have failed out cheaper at their community college.

What I'm saying is, it's more complex than "choices".

Re: Student Loans. Medical Debt. Criminal Justice Fees. Cancel It All.

#32

Post by EvanAnderson »

faitswulff wrote: post #17

Student debt is the epitome of rent-seeking. You can't even discharge it with bankruptcy. Cancel it.

The terms and conditions of the debt obligation are known up-front. If the terms of the loan were onerous the borrowers shouldn't have accepted them and declined the loan. Why is poor financial literacy and wishful thinking about future job prospects on borrowers' parts my problem to be left holding the bag for?

Re: Student Loans. Medical Debt. Criminal Justice Fees. Cancel It All.

#33

Post by viraptor »

floor2 wrote: post #13

The terminology of "cancelling" the debt is the most dishonest, twisted abuse of the English language. There is no "cancelling" debt. There's only forcing other people to pay. The incentives here are entirely backwards. All the people who made good decisions around cost-benefit of their education, all the people who made frugal choices, all the people who worked hard for the delayed gratification of their long-term p…

The frugal little wouldn't lose anything. They'd gain less, which is not the same. Every single day there are people taking really stupid risks and winning due to luck. Do you feel penalised because you took less risks?

If cancelling student debt solves real problems for the population on average, but makes a few idiots multimillionaires by accident... I'm all for it.

Re: Student Loans. Medical Debt. Criminal Justice Fees. Cancel It All.

#34

Post by legitster »

gruez wrote: post #19
bluGill wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At least in the Jewish version the law also said you can't take into account the nearness of the the jubilee to not make a loan. I'm not sure if/how much that was respected though.

>you can't take into account the nearness of the the jubilee to not make a loan What's preventing you from getting a huge loan 1 day before the jubilee?

Realistically you wouldn't.

Re: Student Loans. Medical Debt. Criminal Justice Fees. Cancel It All.

#35

Post by hliyan »

floor2 wrote: post #13

The terminology of "cancelling" the debt is the most dishonest, twisted abuse of the English language. There is no "cancelling" debt. There's only forcing other people to pay. The incentives here are entirely backwards. All the people who made good decisions around cost-benefit of their education, all the people who made frugal choices, all the people who worked hard for the delayed gratification of their long-term p…

> all the people who worked hard for the delayed gratification of their long-term planning get penalized and have to pick up the tab for the people who spent 4 years partying without any concern about cost of their education or lifestyle

Are you sure you're not getting these two groups backwards? All the people that I know of who "worked hard and delayed gratification" are precisely the people who are getting penalized by having to jump through hoops that the "partying" type does not seem to have to worry about.

Re: Student Loans. Medical Debt. Criminal Justice Fees. Cancel It All.

#36

Post by gruez »

faitswulff wrote: post #27
floor2 wrote: post #13

The terminology of "cancelling" the debt is the most dishonest, twisted abuse of the English language. There is no "cancelling" debt. There's only forcing other people to pay. The incentives here are entirely backwards. All the people who made good decisions around cost-benefit of their education, all the people who made frugal choices, all the people who worked hard for the delayed gratification of their long-term p…

> The terminology of "cancelling" the debt is the most dishonest, twisted abuse of the English language. This kind of hyperbole is, itself, an example of "dishonest, twisted" language. > There is no "cancelling" debt. There's only forcing other people to pay. If I declare a banana to cost $1,000,000 but you can get it for the low price of $1 with a loan of $999,999 today and that loan gets canceled, does that mean so…

>If I declare a banana to cost $1,000,000 but you can get it for the low price of $1 with a loan of $999,999 today and that loan gets canceled, does that mean someone else has to pay me the remaining sum?

The contract would likely be ruled invalid for being unconscionable, because the fair market value of a banana is like 50 cents. However, if it was something like 10 cents upfront but $10 later that would likely be upheld.

Re: Student Loans. Medical Debt. Criminal Justice Fees. Cancel It All.

#37

Post by jvanderbot »

_fat_santa wrote: post #11

Right now we have around 1.5T in outstanding student debt. If all of this debt were to be cancelled, who would be left holding the bag? What would that do to the economy? IMO if we cancel all student debt, this would seriously rock our economy because we suddenly decided to take 1.5T in debt assets out of the economy.

They aren't really in the economy. Private assets are, but aren't public loans held by the US gov? You'd lose the income from I guess interest or payments, but I wonder where that's going in the fed budget?

Re: Student Loans. Medical Debt. Criminal Justice Fees. Cancel It All.

#38

Post by errantmind »

viraptor wrote: post #33
floor2 wrote: post #13

The terminology of "cancelling" the debt is the most dishonest, twisted abuse of the English language. There is no "cancelling" debt. There's only forcing other people to pay. The incentives here are entirely backwards. All the people who made good decisions around cost-benefit of their education, all the people who made frugal choices, all the people who worked hard for the delayed gratification of their long-term p…

The frugal little wouldn't lose anything. They'd gain less, which is not the same. Every single day there are people taking really stupid risks and winning due to luck. Do you feel penalised because you took less risks? If cancelling student debt solves real problems for the population on average, but makes a few idiots multimillionaires by accident... I'm all for it.

Where do you think the money comes from to pay off this debt? The debt doesn't just disappear into thin air

Re: Student Loans. Medical Debt. Criminal Justice Fees. Cancel It All.

#39

Post by EvanAnderson »

rjbwork wrote: post #21

Great let's do it. And of course, my parents, who paid tens of thousands of dollars for my tuition, and I, who have paid off tens of thousands of dollars of student loan debt will be reimbursed for our absolute stupidity in being financially responsible, right?

I wouldn't expect a refund for paying off my wife's student loans, or my own medical debt. That seems unfair.

I'd expect a refund and interest commensurate with the earnings I lost being unable to invest that money. Were I an amoral freeloader that's certainly what I would have done, rather than living up to my debt obligations.

Re: Student Loans. Medical Debt. Criminal Justice Fees. Cancel It All.

#40

Post by deregulateMed »

faitswulff wrote: post #17

Student debt is the epitome of rent-seeking. You can't even discharge it with bankruptcy. Cancel it.

I like democracy, but you see this and wonder how many people are short sighted (answer- most people).

Maybe we really do need AI overlords.

Op- you haven't attempted to think of the repercussions of such an event. If you want to weigh pros and cons, you can.

For everyone else, is today's candy of free college worth a collapse of faith in our financial system? Is it better to get rid of college debt and have people never trust investment?

My best answer is that a financial collapse might help the environment. But it would also cause incredible numbers of dead humans.

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