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Why Apple’s ITC patent victory over HTC Android phones is scary

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Re: Why Apple’s ITC patent victory over HTC Android phones is scary

#81

Post by sorbus »

[deleted] wrote: post #75
orangecat wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There were no touch screen phones prior to the iPhone announcement. Nope: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LG_Prada_%28KE850%29 , among several others. Apple took an existing idea and executed it well. By your standards, they should be sued out of existence. Calling this "abuse" communicates to me that you think when it comes to software, people should be able to copy whatever they want. If by "copy" you mean "create pro…

[deleted]

> which was announced after the iPhone

The first iPhone was announced on January 9, 2007. The LG was announced on December 12, 2006. Your timeline seems to be a bit off.

> I made a good, rational argument, but since I'm not in agreement with the hive mind, it is currently sitting at -1.

So two people downvoted you. Let me explain how voting works on HN: A comment which the initial readers dislike will be downvoted, because they tend to express their opinions through downvoting rather than argument. Then, over the next few hours, the rest of the people on HN will show up, read your comment, and vote on it based on whether they think it presents a "good, rational argument". This happens all the time - comments drop down to -1 or -2, the submitter freaks out about hiveminds, and then when the rest of the people on HN get around it reading it it gets upvoted. Calm down.

Re: Why Apple’s ITC patent victory over HTC Android phones is scary

#82

Post by sorbus »

rbarooah wrote: post #63
cageface wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And Apple was in a position to make those investments in the first place because they profited handsomely from copying wholesale the fundamental ideas of the Mac UI. Now that the tables are turned they want to change the rules of the game. Android brings more than enough innovation to the table to justify its existence. If anything Apple is borrowing more from Google now than vice-versa.

This argument is based on repeating an easily debunked falsehood. Apple did not 'copy wholesale the fundamental ideas of the Mac UI'. They paid Xerox for a license to commercialize the technology via a stock deal, and then they spent significant effort refining it to make a consumer product. So Apple really just wants other people to play by the same rules they do.

> They paid Xerox for a license to commercialize the technology via a stock deal, and then they spent significant effort refining it to make a consumer product.

You are the first person I've ever heard make that claim. The only support I've found for that statement is a throw-away sentence in Wikipedia's article about a lawsuit between Apple and Microsoft, which does not appear to be supported by the document cited. So, do you have a citation for that?

Re: Why Apple’s ITC patent victory over HTC Android phones is scary

#84

Post by abecedarius »

patentavenger wrote: post #80

One of the patents is for registering regular expressions to extract telephone numbers and contact information out of documents. This is a stupid patent for several reasons: #1 It's bloody obvious. Pretty much everyone reinvents it (Microsoft Smart Links anyone?) SMS->Extract Phone number, etc #2 It's so bloody obvious that there is prior open-source applications prior to 1996 that have this feature (turning phone nu…

Multitouch was not an iPhone invention, though I'd believe details of how they did it were. (Or anyway inventions of the company they bought before starting the project.) And using accelerometers to infer orientation -- wasn't that what accelerometers were invented for in the first place? (With other applications like triggering airbags coming later? I'm not sure but that's the impression I'm under.)

Re: Why Apple’s ITC patent victory over HTC Android phones is scary

#85

Post by protomyth »

adbge wrote: post #47
raganwald wrote: post #32

There are three salient questions: First, is Apple a troll seeking rents or a functioning entity that invests in research and seeks to make money from products? Second, are the patents valid given the current patent system and laws (prior art, obviousness, &c) or not. And third, is the current system broken? I think there's room to debate the second and third points. But with respect to the first point, Apple is usin…

> Apple has been researching personal computing since it was founded, and invests heavily in figuring out exactly what works to make viable products. Apple actually does comparatively little spending on R&D when contrasted with the likes of Microsoft or even Google. [1] When it comes to design, it's well known that Apple is of the mentality that good design is something recognizable and, that being the case, they don…

As the government has found out, R&D dollars spent is not the best way to rate the output. To put in programmer terms, we have all seen projects that spent a lot of money on developers and shown no more than a 5 person team would have had. The companies process (and desire) in patent making is an important item also.

Re: Why Apple’s ITC patent victory over HTC Android phones is scary

#86

Post by protomyth »

sorbus wrote: post #82
rbarooah wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This argument is based on repeating an easily debunked falsehood. Apple did not 'copy wholesale the fundamental ideas of the Mac UI'. They paid Xerox for a license to commercialize the technology via a stock deal, and then they spent significant effort refining it to make a consumer product. So Apple really just wants other people to play by the same rules they do.

> They paid Xerox for a license to commercialize the technology via a stock deal, and then they spent significant effort refining it to make a consumer product. You are the first person I've ever heard make that claim. The only support I've found for that statement is a throw-away sentence in Wikipedia's article about a lawsuit between Apple and Microsoft, which does not appear to be supported by the document cited.…

The New Yorker[1] has one of many references on the internet, but the price was 100,000 shares of pre-IPO Apple stock at $10 per share. The visit happened (over the protests of some at PARC). There are some side comments about the visit in "Triumph of the Nerds“.

1) http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/2011/05/16/110516fa_fact_...

Re: Why Apple’s ITC patent victory over HTC Android phones is scary

#87

Post by jdq »

cageface wrote: post #50

We've all seen this but people seem to forget: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CW0DUg63lqU Steve himself: "We have been shameless about stealing great ideas". It's sad to see him now, reduced to these tactics.

There is a difference between stealing an idea and blatant copying.

Re: Why Apple’s ITC patent victory over HTC Android phones is scary

#88

Post by jdq »

RyanKearney wrote: post #83

Just in case anyone forgot, Steve Jobs once said: "We have always been shameless of stealing great ideas" http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CW0DUg63lqU

Windows Phone 7 is 'stealing' the idea [of a touch-screen smart phone]. That is very different than just copying. Ex:

http://www.cultofmac.com/side-by-side-comparison-samsung-vs-...

Re: Why Apple’s ITC patent victory over HTC Android phones is scary

#89

Post by sorbus »

protomyth wrote: post #86
sorbus wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> They paid Xerox for a license to commercialize the technology via a stock deal, and then they spent significant effort refining it to make a consumer product. You are the first person I've ever heard make that claim. The only support I've found for that statement is a throw-away sentence in Wikipedia's article about a lawsuit between Apple and Microsoft, which does not appear to be supported by the document cited.…

The New Yorker[1] has one of many references on the internet, but the price was 100,000 shares of pre-IPO Apple stock at $10 per share. The visit happened (over the protests of some at PARC). There are some side comments about the visit in "Triumph of the Nerds“. 1) http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/2011/05/16/110516fa_fact_...

Well then, you were entirely correct. I suppose that my search was both fairly cursory and didn't include all of the right search terms. I find it very surprising that this is the first I've heard of it, though; the "apple stole from xerox" meme is really entrenched, to the point that I never really doubted its truth.

Re: Why Apple’s ITC patent victory over HTC Android phones is scary

#90

Post by chc »

sorbus wrote: post #81
[deleted] wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[deleted]

> which was announced after the iPhone The first iPhone was announced on January 9, 2007. The LG was announced on December 12, 2006. Your timeline seems to be a bit off. > I made a good, rational argument, but since I'm not in agreement with the hive mind, it is currently sitting at -1. So two people downvoted you. Let me explain how voting works on HN: A comment which the initial readers dislike will be downvoted, b…

Also, due to UI issues, it's aggravatingly easy for iPhone users to accidentally vote on a comment. I've become incredibly paranoid when reading HN on my phone these days just because I've accidentally driven so many commenters ballistic with random downvotes. Getting mad over one or two votes just doesn't make sense, even less than getting mad over HN votes in general makes sense.

(Incidentally, and ironically given the subject matter, this problem doesn't seem to exist on Android. I wonder if Apple has a patent on forum rage.)

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