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Flipper Zero: How it’s made and tested

blog.flipperzero.one

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Re: Flipper Zero: How it’s made and tested

#31

Post by dragonsngoblins »

lmm wrote: post #28
OhSoHumble wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While I understand that there has been a long history of Kickstarter projects underdelivering or not delivering at all... I would think the context of a global pandemic causing record resource shortages would allow cutting these guys some slack, yeah? I mean, if Nvidia and AMD can't get a graphics card into my hands over the course of a year then I can't imagine a super tiny group of engineers would have much luck bo…

The fact that Nvidia and AMD are having trouble highlights that supply chain financing is a risky business where even professionals lose their money. Requiring customers to take part in it as a condition for (eventually) buying the product feels icky to me.

You don't have to back the project to be able to buy one though: you can preorder from the second production wave on their site currently. It isn't as if they are only selling to backers and won't produce anymore after that

Re: Flipper Zero: How it’s made and tested

#32

Post by exikyut »

cstrat wrote: post #10

I loved their post on the iButton. https://blog.flipperzero.one/taming-ibutton/ I've never actually come across this interface. It's not common in Australia, I still really enjoyed the write up and seeing how they overcame the difficulties.

I think I started noticing circa ~2003 (and possibly as far back as ~1999) how cleaners at larger shopping centers (like Westfields) in Sydney would prove they've visited a specific area by tapping a little box they carry with them against iButtons discretely squirreled away in random corners. You generally have to know where to look to find them; the easiest way would probably be to get into the habit of hawkeyeing every cleaner you see, particularly if they're walking somewhere - but I noticed (back when I was actively hunting for the things) they tended to pop up around entries/exits for some reason (including major entrances and carpark exits).

The epoxy jobs I often see anchoring iButtons to walls visibly aren't at the level of detail/engineering required to run invisible wiring (eg through concrete) etc, so I theorize that the iButtons themselves are completely passive (eg, they contain a resistor, or maybe a microcontroller), and the box is a transponder (unlikely) or that it records to internal storage and then gets dropped onto a sync cradle (more likely).

The gadgets the cleaners use are very literally about as featureful as a cigarette packet: a dark grey rectangle with an iButton connector on the back and a small LCD. I've not really ever had the impetus to go pin a cleaner down and politely ask for more details :D

Re: Flipper Zero: How it’s made and tested

#33

Post by ThePowerOfFuet »

exikyut wrote: post #32
cstrat wrote: post #10

I loved their post on the iButton. https://blog.flipperzero.one/taming-ibutton/ I've never actually come across this interface. It's not common in Australia, I still really enjoyed the write up and seeing how they overcame the difficulties.

I think I started noticing circa ~2003 (and possibly as far back as ~1999) how cleaners at larger shopping centers (like Westfields) in Sydney would prove they've visited a specific area by tapping a little box they carry with them against iButtons discretely squirreled away in random corners. You generally have to know where to look to find them; the easiest way would probably be to get into the habit of hawkeyeing…

They contain an EEPROM and/or a microcontroller. Some just play a serial number, others can run full-blown Java (or maybe it was JavaCard) applets. "Java Ring" was such an iButton on a ring to be worn.

Re: Flipper Zero: How it’s made and tested

#35

Post by wpietri »

lmm wrote: post #28
OhSoHumble wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While I understand that there has been a long history of Kickstarter projects underdelivering or not delivering at all... I would think the context of a global pandemic causing record resource shortages would allow cutting these guys some slack, yeah? I mean, if Nvidia and AMD can't get a graphics card into my hands over the course of a year then I can't imagine a super tiny group of engineers would have much luck bo…

The fact that Nvidia and AMD are having trouble highlights that supply chain financing is a risky business where even professionals lose their money. Requiring customers to take part in it as a condition for (eventually) buying the product feels icky to me.

I think "requiring" is a funny word to use here.

Producing anything to sell commercially requires work up front. That work has to get paid for. While that work is happening, the people involved need to eat and to keep their families fed. Is the universe a big ol' meanie for "requiring" people to keep eating? I guess.

Regardless, up-front money is required. Previously something like this could only happen if you managed to find somebody with millions of dollars sitting around and then managed to convince them to give you enough to get your product built. And then you had the problem of finding your buyers, which cost more money for marketing.

I have my issues with Kickstarter. But inviting the individuals who want your product to participate in financing it seems like a giant step forward to me. If you have a better idea, I'm all ears. If not, maybe just block Kickstarter in your browser? Then you'll be free of any perceived burdensome requirements.

Re: Flipper Zero: How it’s made and tested

#36

Post by exikyut »

ThePowerOfFuet wrote: post #33
exikyut wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think I started noticing circa ~2003 (and possibly as far back as ~1999) how cleaners at larger shopping centers (like Westfields) in Sydney would prove they've visited a specific area by tapping a little box they carry with them against iButtons discretely squirreled away in random corners. You generally have to know where to look to find them; the easiest way would probably be to get into the habit of hawkeyeing…

They contain an EEPROM and/or a microcontroller. Some just play a serial number, others can run full-blown Java (or maybe it was JavaCard) applets. "Java Ring" was such an iButton on a ring to be worn.

Oooooh. That means the score chart would go something like...

If EEPROM:

Level 0: Determine that it's an EEPROM and dump the full contents

Level 1: Locate the undocumented vendor control string (which doesn't exist) and unlocks the EEPROM and makes it fully rewritable

Level 2: Rewrite the EEPROM to change the area code or label or whatnot to something funny

Level 3.14159265359: Rewrite the EEPROM such that its contents cause a buffer overflow in the handheld gadget and achieve remote code execution

Level 42: Rewrite the EEPROM such that the RCE achieved in the handheld gadget then causes nested RCE in the synchronization software, then use the opportunity to, say, open a popular YouTube video

If Java:

Level 0: Send data through the iButton link that breaks the Java sandbox and allows for general execution on the CPU

Level 1: Dump the full contents of the firmware

Level 2: Alter the firmware such that every time you tap the iButton it sends area information from shopping centres in entirely different states (counties) :D

Level 3.1e10: Alter the firmware to achieve RCE in the scanner gadget, then stream individual video frames through the iButton link onto the scanner LCD :D

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