Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Americans aren't willing to pay to stop climate change

mleverything.substack.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

121–130 of 150 posts

Re: Americans aren't willing to pay to stop climate change

#121

Post by xboxnolifes »

steveBK123 wrote: post #45

This is pretty obvious. My most outspoken Green New Deal supporting friends & family who were reposting social media of Greta & AOC are also 0-1 child households with SUVs. It's hashtag activism. No one wants to make sacrifices. The only solutions are going to be finding ways to grow our way out of it and incentivize good things (fuel economy, EVs, rail, solar, wind, nuclear, geothermal heat pumps, etc). Neither Degr…

> Even today - look at how tax incentivized solar is, and how fast the break-even is.. and yet how few people take advantage of it?

In most areas? Not fast at all, and very close to the expected life of the panels for consumer-grade house panels considering the up-front investment.

Re: Americans aren't willing to pay to stop climate change

#122

Post by walkedaway »

jessaustin wrote: post #104
walkedaway wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why do you think you're entitled to 100% of my wealth?

I doubt I'll get it. I don't even get a discount on healthcare.gov. Mostly I'd like to see USA governed by its citizens rather than the rich. If they weren't rich anymore that might happen. Of course the point is that the rich won't allow this. The system will not fix the harms it was designed to create. If something like this went through it would probably take from the (5-1)% and give to the 0.1%.

Got it. Make everyone poor and suffer. Great plan.

Re: Americans aren't willing to pay to stop climate change

#124

Post by sofixa »

jlawson wrote: post #22
ineiti wrote: post #13

In Switzerland there was a vote 2 weeks ago about whether we want to support a law to reduce CO2 output by our population. The law was very clear how the money would be spent: improve heating, direct pay to poor citizens, and many others. Cost: - 50 cents per gallon of gas (our gas is about 6$ per gallon) - 20$ to 100$ for a plane ticket The law was refused by 51% of Swiss citizen. What really killed me was that the…

>improve heating, direct pay to poor citizens, and many others. What does "improve heating" mean? How does "direct pay to poor citizens" help climate change? Perhaps the law wasn't really about climate change, but was another one of those times where policy someone wanted anyway was being pushed with climate change as an excuse. In any case I can't form an opinion on this vote result without knowing what was actually…

> What does "improve heating" mean?

Not Swiss, so this is mostly conjecture, but what is usually included in those types of proposals is to improve housing insulation and the heating network ( in the case of central heating, either per building or more central) making them more efficient, thus requiring less energy to achieve the same effect ( people aren't cold in their homes).

Re: Americans aren't willing to pay to stop climate change

#125

Post by tim333 »

>Suppose a proposal was on the ballot next year to add a monthly fee to consumers’ monthly electricity bill to combat climate change. If this proposal passes, it would cost your household $10 every month.

The article says people say no so they aren't will to stop climate change but $10 on the electricity bill is no way going to stop climate change!

I wish people would get real with this and say "We figure a global carbon price of $200 a ton would fix climate change. Would you be up for that?" Which might actually work. I mean you'd have to get global buy in but it would be a real solution rather than the dumb, ineffective, CO2 keeps going up anyway stuff they do now.

Re: Americans aren't willing to pay to stop climate change

#126

Post by steveBK123 »

xboxnolifes wrote: post #121
steveBK123 wrote: post #45

This is pretty obvious. My most outspoken Green New Deal supporting friends & family who were reposting social media of Greta & AOC are also 0-1 child households with SUVs. It's hashtag activism. No one wants to make sacrifices. The only solutions are going to be finding ways to grow our way out of it and incentivize good things (fuel economy, EVs, rail, solar, wind, nuclear, geothermal heat pumps, etc). Neither Degr…

> Even today - look at how tax incentivized solar is, and how fast the break-even is.. and yet how few people take advantage of it? In most areas? Not fast at all, and very close to the expected life of the panels for consumer-grade house panels considering the up-front investment.

In New York State with Fed, state and utility incentives it's like 4 years.

Re: Americans aren't willing to pay to stop climate change

#127

Post by steveBK123 »

post_break wrote: post #120
steveBK123 wrote: post #45

This is pretty obvious. My most outspoken Green New Deal supporting friends & family who were reposting social media of Greta & AOC are also 0-1 child households with SUVs. It's hashtag activism. No one wants to make sacrifices. The only solutions are going to be finding ways to grow our way out of it and incentivize good things (fuel economy, EVs, rail, solar, wind, nuclear, geothermal heat pumps, etc). Neither Degr…

Speaking of solar do you have it installed on your house? Even with tax credits do you know how much they cost, they are not cheap. And financing it isn't like a car. Sure it's 1% finance but add like 10K finance charge which kills the rebate. All on top of that you actually have to own a home, which is becoming impossible in america.

Not yet because you only want to install on a newer roof otherwise you pay a lot to uninstall/reinstall on roof replacement.

Relative to price of a home, they are cheap, under $10k without storage. People spend 2-5x more on a kitchen or bathroom cosmetic remodel.

If you need financing, you can use a HELOC. The break even is like 4 years.

Your statements are fairly hyperbolic considering something like 60% of Americans own their home, so it can't be impossible.

Re: Americans aren't willing to pay to stop climate change

#128

Post by jessaustin »

walkedaway wrote: post #122
jessaustin wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I doubt I'll get it. I don't even get a discount on healthcare.gov. Mostly I'd like to see USA governed by its citizens rather than the rich. If they weren't rich anymore that might happen. Of course the point is that the rich won't allow this. The system will not fix the harms it was designed to create. If something like this went through it would probably take from the (5-1)% and give to the 0.1%.

Got it. Make everyone poor and suffer. Great plan.

The cutoff I've seen for the 1% is $11M net worth. Is everyone poorer than that, "suffering"? What kind of world do you live in?

Re: Americans aren't willing to pay to stop climate change

#129

Post by walkedaway »

jessaustin wrote: post #128
walkedaway wrote: post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Got it. Make everyone poor and suffer. Great plan.

The cutoff I've seen for the 1% is $11M net worth. Is everyone poorer than that, "suffering"? What kind of world do you live in?

By definition there's a new 1% when you take the top 1% and make it 0. Then you take the new 1%. And so on.

Simple math. Everyone ends up with zero.

Re: Americans aren't willing to pay to stop climate change

#130

Post by jessaustin »

walkedaway wrote: post #129
jessaustin wrote: post #128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The cutoff I've seen for the 1% is $11M net worth. Is everyone poorer than that, "suffering"? What kind of world do you live in?

By definition there's a new 1% when you take the top 1% and make it 0. Then you take the new 1%. And so on. Simple math. Everyone ends up with zero.

Haha that's the most amusing slippery-slope argument I've seen recently, and it also has a pleasing Zeno's Dichotomy Paradox aspect to it as well. Bravo!
Post reply on HN