HK media erase their archives amid rising arrests • Hacker News Board

Re: HK media erase their archives amid rising arrests

#341

Post by mucholove » Fri, Jul 02, 2021, 12:03 AM UTC

wolverine876 wrote: post #331

mucholove wrote: post #283

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you are confounding a few things. In Switzerland you have 4 referendums a year where the demos, the people, make decisions in concert. In most republics, all you get to do is elect a representative. Some US states do hold referendums like California. This means that some republics do have representatives and the people share decision making power. This however does not happen at the level of the American Fede…

> all you get to do is elect a representative. Some US states do hold referendums like California You should check out ballots from around the U.S. There is far more than "a representative" on them. > These representatives are much more susceptible to capture than the entire demos. I'm not sure that's true. Recent history hasn't shown the public does well with complex issues - that's why it's good to hire someone to…

Thank you for following up.

The first point dosen’t really do anything for me because I did cite California as one of many US states holding a referendum.

The 2nd point is a more interesting debate and it may involve some preference.

For my money, I would much rather be Swiss than Singaporean.

Swiss trains run on time and the infrastructure is plenty good compared to Singapore. You could switch this out for a more free and still very competent state like Taiwan.

Of note: questions of citizenship in Switzerland are decided at the Canton, not the Federal level. Your neighbors are making the decision as to whether they want you to become a citizen. Not some far away bureaucrat.

An argument for your stated preference of more expertise is hinted at in this review in what I think is the book of the year, “The Premonition” by Michael Lewis. They cite a book “10% Less Democracy.” There is some merit to this in the short run—but in the long run, I would rather be Swiss. (And I would be on the side where I would be happy to have the union expect more responsibility from me. For example, I would not be in favor of shortening the time of service.)

https://marginalrevolution.com/marginalrevolution/2021/06/th...

Re: HK media erase their archives amid rising arrests

#342

Post by strogonoff » Fri, Jul 02, 2021, 2:24 AM UTC

smcl wrote: post #200

sumedh wrote: post #123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> the British could just give us some island they don’t need What about the people who are already living on that island, what if they dont want foreigners?

It wouldn't be the first time a local population were forcibly evicted from a British colonial possession and a bunch of foreign nationals moved in: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diego_Garcia

There exist uninhabited islands, but climate is harsh.

Re: HK media erase their archives amid rising arrests

#343

Post by strogonoff » Fri, Jul 02, 2021, 2:26 AM UTC

robjan wrote: post #201

iheartlife wrote: post #137

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Historically that might have been the case, today HK is rich because of its (financial) regulations that was mainly inherited from the british. HK is still one of the incorporation centers of the the world (akin to Delaware in US) as well as a major financial hub.

This is because it's the main route for money going in and out of China. Pretty much all of the commercial activity in Hong Kong is either trading/investing activities with China or facilitating trade/investment in China

Clearly, once HK loses the remnants of its autonomy and becomes literally a part of China rather than some external middle ground, it would no longer reap these benefits of its geography.

Re: HK media erase their archives amid rising arrests

#344

Post by Dah00n » Fri, Jul 02, 2021, 3:00 PM UTC

TheParkShark wrote: post #276

Dah00n wrote: post #183

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It doesn't really matter in the big picture. How would the US look in a month or six if we by war stopped all products from China today? The US would become unrecognisable. The economy would be so destroyed it would hardly be a victory no matter what casualties says on the two sides. Even if we nuked some of our own cities we would be better off than after winning a conventional war against China. No, a war against C…

How would china look with no money coming in for six months? China is incapable of standing on their own. Propped up by IT theft and copycat companies funded by the CCP. Dry up the money and it’ll be the USSR pt 2 in China.

What is your point? That if the US wins a war with China then China looses by loosing? What is surprising in that?

The point is that a war won by the US will destroy the winner too. Did you just downvote and comment without even reading the post or what?

Re: HK media erase their archives amid rising arrests

#345

Post by Dah00n » Fri, Jul 02, 2021, 3:01 PM UTC

TheParkShark wrote: post #275

Dah00n wrote: post #177

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The US rarely starts wars with anyone who can hurt it. Even a conventional war with China would be extremely different than anything the US has seen since WW2 and in some ways this would be worse. Do you think the modern US has the stomach for multiple sunken aircraft carriers, WW2 or Korean war style casualties, etc. all the while with the US home front without products it cannot live without? It would completely de…

You say this like China wouldn’t suffer. Their economy will come to a screeching halt when they have no one to export their goods to. The CCP would lose whatever faith their citizens have left in them.

That is you reading something in it I didn't write. The point is that a won war will utterly destroy the winner too. Sure, the looser wil loose. That isn't surprising and I didn't think it needed saying.

Re: HK media erase their archives amid rising arrests

#346

Post by orestarod » Tue, Jul 06, 2021, 12:16 AM UTC

nindalf wrote: post #334

orestarod wrote: post #327

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In a representative democracy, do you have a say, control or checks in what decisions those representatives you elected make? Or do they do whatever they want and, tough luck, wait 4 years? Or do they do the opposite of what they promised and tough luck, 4 years again? And the same 2 parties which are essentially the same can get elected and none else, so... tough luck in general?

If you have a system that consistently makes better decisions and leads to better outcomes for more people across countries and eras, I'd be delighted to hear it.

You know, China's system made wonders. Maybe everyone should follow it? No other system achieved such an unprecedented economic growth and lifted so many people out of poverty. Freedom? No need, you don't have more in the US anyway. US is just better at PR towards some of its own citizens.

Dismissing criticism about our system,in which the officials just do whatever they want without checks and lie every four years to keep doing it, by saying "tell me a better system", implies you have given up. Good for you, but at some point the "best system in the world" was monarchy because the question "can you tell me a better system" had no answer either.