A Group Is Its Own Worst Enemy (2003)
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A Group Is Its Own Worst Enemy (2003)
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Re: A Group Is Its Own Worst Enemy (2003)
#2What an interesting read. In a way it serves as a warning of all the things that can and will go wrong, and you can see the equivalents to it in action today, some at an amplified level. Not just on the popular social media like FB and IG, but HN and reddit too.
The other interesting aspect is how they've gleaned so much insight from their relative (to now) limited number of groups and communities.
I wonder what they would say in today's online landscape.
Re: A Group Is Its Own Worst Enemy (2003)
#3This is magnificent.
Re: A Group Is Its Own Worst Enemy (2003)
#4This is such a classic. I feel like talks of this quality and with this much depth of research are sadly pretty rare at the conferences I attend these days.
(Plus I miss O'Reilly ETech)
Re: A Group Is Its Own Worst Enemy (2003)
#5And the adults who had set up Communitree were horrified, and overrun by these students [who were only interested in what we now generally call 'shitposting' and 'trolling']. The place that was founded on open access had too much open access, too much openness. They couldn't defend themselves against their own users. The place that was founded on free speech had too much freedom. They had no way of saying "No, that's not the kind of free speech we meant."
Plus ça change, plus c'est la même chose.
Re: A Group Is Its Own Worst Enemy (2003)
#6Past related threads:
A Group Is Its Own Worst Enemy (2003) [pdf] - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23723205 - July 2020 (14 comments)
LambdaMOO takes a new direction (1992) - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22680965 - March 2020 (29 comments)
A Group Is Its Own Worst Enemy - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14634437 - June 2017 (1 comment)
The Lessons of Lucasfilm's Habitat (1990) - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8255850 - Sept 2014 (10 comments)
Shirky: A Group Is Its Own Worst Enemy - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3003574 - Sept 2011 (15 comments)
A Group Is Its Own Worst Enemy - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3003547 - Sept 2011 (8 comments)
Ask YC: forums still a viable format (group-enemy problem)? - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=944662 - Nov 2009 (6 comments)
Clay Shirky: A Group Is Its Own Worst Enemy - Social Software Design - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=460624 - Feb 2009 (13 comments)
A group is its own worst enemy... - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=122189 - Feb 2008 (1 comment)
Shirky: A Group Is Its Own Worst Enemy - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24992 - May 2007 (1 comment)
A Group is its Own Worst Enemy - Social Software Design - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7354 - March 2007 (3 comments)
Others?
Re: A Group Is Its Own Worst Enemy (2003)
#7And the adults who had set up Communitree were horrified, and overrun by these students [who were only interested in what we now generally call 'shitposting' and 'trolling']. The place that was founded on open access had too much open access, too much openness. They couldn't defend themselves against their own users. The place that was founded on free speech had too much freedom. They had no way of saying "No, that's…
And the next paragraph from that:
"But that was a requirement. In order to defend themselves against being overrun, that was something that they needed to have that they didn't have, and as a result, they simply shut the site down."
They didn't want to block anyone, so they deleted it. That's why we can't have nice things.
Re: A Group Is Its Own Worst Enemy (2003)
#8And the adults who had set up Communitree were horrified, and overrun by these students [who were only interested in what we now generally call 'shitposting' and 'trolling']. The place that was founded on open access had too much open access, too much openness. They couldn't defend themselves against their own users. The place that was founded on free speech had too much freedom. They had no way of saying "No, that's…
And the next paragraph from that: "But that was a requirement. In order to defend themselves against being overrun, that was something that they needed to have that they didn't have, and as a result, they simply shut the site down." They didn't want to block anyone, so they deleted it. That's why we can't have nice things.
It's unfortunate they chose to engage in mass self-deplatforming rather than simply engage in vigorous debate or attempt to open a dialog and empathize with the views of those they considered guilty of thoughtcrime. Did no one tell them that free speech means nothing if it doesn't apply to the speech we find most objectionable? That sunlight, not censorship, is the best disinfectant?
First they came for the shitposters...
Re: A Group Is Its Own Worst Enemy (2003)
#9Earlier quoted context omitted.
And the next paragraph from that: "But that was a requirement. In order to defend themselves against being overrun, that was something that they needed to have that they didn't have, and as a result, they simply shut the site down." They didn't want to block anyone, so they deleted it. That's why we can't have nice things.
It's unfortunate they chose to engage in mass self-deplatforming rather than simply engage in vigorous debate or attempt to open a dialog and empathize with the views of those they considered guilty of thoughtcrime. Did no one tell them that free speech means nothing if it doesn't apply to the speech we find most objectionable? That sunlight, not censorship, is the best disinfectant? First they came for the shitposte…
You're complaining that hundreds of thousands of taxpayer dollars weren't spent arguing with 15 year-old trolls on the internet?
Re: A Group Is Its Own Worst Enemy (2003)
#10And the adults who had set up Communitree were horrified, and overrun by these students [who were only interested in what we now generally call 'shitposting' and 'trolling']. The place that was founded on open access had too much open access, too much openness. They couldn't defend themselves against their own users. The place that was founded on free speech had too much freedom. They had no way of saying "No, that's…
The more that things change, the more they stay the same!