Americans aren't willing to pay to stop climate change • Hacker News Board

Re: Americans aren't willing to pay to stop climate change

#111

Post by betwixthewires » Thu, Jul 01, 2021, 11:07 PM UTC

iguanayou wrote: post #46

ItsMonkk wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can trivially set up a carbon tax that a majority of voters would vote for, simply give the money that you taxed back out equally among the population as a form of UBI. We don't see these proposals because they are not proposals that the wealthy and powerful would benefit from.

Exactly. Making the whole "I don't trust the government to do something smart with my money" argument moot. It has been proposed, voters have seen the proposal, and it has been voted down.

Well this presumes two things, one, that there are no valid arguments against cap and trade, and two, that propaganda against cap and trade is not effective. But both are true. Plenty of people do oppose cap and trade simply because those influencing their political stripe loudly oppose it, and plenty of people have valid concerns about what the effects of such a scheme would be and potential downsides to it.

One particular argument would be that there would probably be all sorts of exemptions and subsidies so as to make it ineffective against the largest producers of CO2, which is a version of "I don't trust the government to do something smart with my money," making it not a moot point after all.

Re: Americans aren't willing to pay to stop climate change

#112

Post by betwixthewires » Thu, Jul 01, 2021, 11:14 PM UTC

post_break wrote: post #66

I'm looking at dropping 25k on solar panels soon to have a zero electric bill, so I'm doing my part I guess.

As someone interested in doing this, does this include installation cost or are you doing it yourself? What percentage of the cost is installation?

Also what capacity does it provide for air conditioning? I don't use air conditioning all that much but I would like the option and I know you have to plan your install for peak usage and not general usage, and you can mitigate that with batteries but that cost has diminishing returns.

Re: Americans aren't willing to pay to stop climate change

#113

Post by blooalien » Thu, Jul 01, 2021, 11:45 PM UTC

And then there's those of us Americans who've already been sacrificing nearly our entire lives to try to protect the environment because we were taught young that we only have the one planet, and if we trash it, it's pretty much over. Those of us who remember when climatologists first warned about climate change and took it seriously. Those of us who've tolerated insults and ridicule over our "paranoia", and still to this day get ridiculed by those who still don't believe climate change is a thing, or that it's affected by human activity. But hey, Americans aren't willing to do anything about climate change... Yeah, whatever... It's our politicians and their corporate owners that don't want to do anything about anything. And like most governments in the world today, "we the people" no longer have any control over our "public servants". They pretty much just do as they want whether we like it or not. Doesn't really matter who we vote in to office if all the candidates we're offered are already corrupt corporate puppets from the get-go.

Re: Americans aren't willing to pay to stop climate change

#114

Post by lamontcg » Fri, Jul 02, 2021, 12:35 AM UTC

Given the way that housing, health care and education costs are spiraling out of control it makes sense that the average American wouldn't want to pay anything to mitigate climate change. And they shouldn't be asked to, and its not really necessary.

Re: Americans aren't willing to pay to stop climate change

#115

Post by rad_gruchalski » Fri, Jul 02, 2021, 12:40 AM UTC

okareaman wrote: post #99

frankfrankfrank wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'll start paying when the people start paying who believe the very same charlatans who fly around in private planes, have several cars and houses, and yachts while traveling to places they could have just as easily teleconferenced to, while also supporting the movement of people from low to high climate change impact countries. What we need is a voluntary tax to pay for climate change. You want it, sign up for the 1…

The idea the Greta Thunberg has to travel to New York by sailboat is ludicrous, but because of people with your attitude, she did it. You have to work from inside the system to change it. Paying for climate change is not a luxury elective item. Sometimes a society has to collectively act to protect itself, even over the protestations of people who believe as you do.

> she did it

Heh, at the same time 2 people had to fly to the US to bring the boat back... if she was so concerned, she could have come back on that boat.

Re: Americans aren't willing to pay to stop climate change

#116

Post by trboyden » Fri, Jul 02, 2021, 12:42 AM UTC

chickenpotpie wrote: post #33

trboyden wrote: post #5

Americans pay many fees and taxes that go to environmental concerns. They also see the government does not use that revenue to address those environmental concerns, because instead it goes to state and federal pensions. Therefore, the real issue is, what do Americans have to do to get the government to spend the money on the things they say it is supposed to go to? Until the government is willing to change their spen…

“Americans pay many fees and taxes that go to environmental concerns” Doubt. Environmentalism is a fraction of a fraction of a fraction of a fraction of US governmental spending. Edit: it’s .2% of the budget. Defense is a whopping 14%. We spend 70 times less on environmentalism than military and we’re not even at war. Source: http://saveepaalums.info/EPA+costs+to+taxpayers

And your point is what? You just provided the exact evidence to what I already stated. Parts of the gas tax, excise taxes, vehicle sales tax, recycling fees, etc... are all fees that Americans pay that are supposed to go to addressing impact on the environment. But the government only spends 0.2% on it. Where did the money go? That is exactly my point. Most of it went to pay pensions that the government over promises on and doesn't budget enough for. Any business that did that would be out of business or switching to 401ks, which most have done.

Re: Americans aren't willing to pay to stop climate change

#117

Post by emerged » Fri, Jul 02, 2021, 12:56 AM UTC

jmann99999 wrote: post #8

The problem with this post is that it cites a survey of how much Americans are willing to pay to "stop climate change." According to the article 57% are willing to pay $1 a month to "stop climate change" and 23% would pay $40 a month. As an American, in a well paying IT job, I'd pay $100 IF IT WOULD STOP CLIMATE CHANGE. However, I don't believe the $1, or $40, or $100 is going to do anything. It's far more complex th…

Seriously, I would pay every penny I have and forgo pay for the rest of my life to stop climate change. But there is no entity on earth I trust to actually follow through with such a promise to actually accomplish that result.

Re: Americans aren't willing to pay to stop climate change

#118

Post by RickJWagner » Fri, Jul 02, 2021, 1:58 AM UTC

I saw some of this first hand not long ago.

I tend to vote conservative, yet my frugal (ok, cheap) nature makes me a natural energy-saver. As an example, I tend to buy cars like a Prius or something with modest fuel needs. I look for ways to save electricity around the house. etc.

I was conversing on social media with a colleague from my hometown. We were (regrettably) talking politics, she made what she considered a 'drop the mic' point by stating "I vote this way because I believe in the science of climate change!"

The irony: her family hobby (with husband) is drag racing. They take great pride in their fuel-sucking Camaro, complete with truck rig to pull it.

I guess we're both turned around.

Re: Americans aren't willing to pay to stop climate change

#119

Post by post_break » Fri, Jul 02, 2021, 2:21 AM UTC

betwixthewires wrote: post #112

post_break wrote: post #66

I'm looking at dropping 25k on solar panels soon to have a zero electric bill, so I'm doing my part I guess.

As someone interested in doing this, does this include installation cost or are you doing it yourself? What percentage of the cost is installation? Also what capacity does it provide for air conditioning? I don't use air conditioning all that much but I would like the option and I know you have to plan your install for peak usage and not general usage, and you can mitigate that with batteries but that cost has dimini…

Turn key. 9.5kw system. Averages out to about a $0 electric bill for the year, this is in texas so AC is a must. This is grid tie system so during summer months I will pull more than I make, but will make up for it in winter months, averaging it out to 0.

Re: Americans aren't willing to pay to stop climate change

#120

Post by post_break » Fri, Jul 02, 2021, 2:23 AM UTC

steveBK123 wrote: post #45

This is pretty obvious. My most outspoken Green New Deal supporting friends & family who were reposting social media of Greta & AOC are also 0-1 child households with SUVs. It's hashtag activism. No one wants to make sacrifices. The only solutions are going to be finding ways to grow our way out of it and incentivize good things (fuel economy, EVs, rail, solar, wind, nuclear, geothermal heat pumps, etc). Neither Degr…

Speaking of solar do you have it installed on your house? Even with tax credits do you know how much they cost, they are not cheap. And financing it isn't like a car. Sure it's 1% finance but add like 10K finance charge which kills the rebate. All on top of that you actually have to own a home, which is becoming impossible in america.