Global minimum corporate tax: 130 nations to support U.S. proposal • Hacker News Board

Re: Global minimum corporate tax: 130 nations to support U.S. proposal

#201

Post by NoboruWataya » Thu, Jul 01, 2021, 9:38 PM UTC

r00fus wrote: post #123

DevX101 wrote: post #109

Did a quick cross ref for the non-signatories ranked by GDP: https://pastebin.com/YyYTV65i I'd predict corporations to move to countries on this list that are non-sanctioned, high rule of law index, and easy to do business in. Ireland and Estonia in particular come to mind.

Ireland is a big hole. Many corps have huge nexus there simply to avoid corporate tax. Would the Dutch-Irish double-sandwich still work - maybe with another country?

It doesn't even work right now - the rules that enabled that structure have already been phased out.

Re: Global minimum corporate tax: 130 nations to support U.S. proposal

#202

Post by naveen99 » Thu, Jul 01, 2021, 9:40 PM UTC

patrickaljord wrote: post #173

Next year the US will spend $715 billion on military budget alone, a $10 billion increase from last year. Shouldn't the government try to cut spending before thinking of how it could increase tax revenue? It's like an obese person wanting to lose weight while eating more each year and thinking of increasing time spent at the gym to make up for it, shouldn't they try eating less if they want to lose weight?

USA has about a 100 trillion in wealth. Spending 1% of it to insure its safety seems about right. How much would you spend ?

Re: Global minimum corporate tax: 130 nations to support U.S. proposal

#203

Post by dantheman » Thu, Jul 01, 2021, 9:40 PM UTC

nonameiguess wrote: post #99

repsilat wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Isn't it a consensus position among economists that corporate taxation is inefficient and badly targeted? That taxes on individuals (wages, goods&services, capital gains) and on land are easier to collect and better at providing desired incentives? Really, isn't a "race to the bottom" a virtuous cycle here? Kinda weird to see Yellen -- Treasury Secretary and former Fed Chair -- making this kind of statement.

Actually a common reason given for having corporate taxes is they're easier to collect since you collect from fewer payers. The biggest problem is they obscure tax burden. All tax burden is ultimately born by individuals. If you levy on the corporation instead of the individual directly, then the burden just gets divided between clients, suppliers, owners, and employees, and how it get divides ends up depending upon…

Seems like it's easier to eliminate corporate taxes - no coordination needed at all.

Re: Global minimum corporate tax: 130 nations to support U.S. proposal

#204

Post by 3pt14159 » Thu, Jul 01, 2021, 9:40 PM UTC

jeofken wrote: post #141

jhrmnn wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In what sense is it good that a company can make profit through a business activity in some country, but instead of paying the tax there, it pays it somewhere else?

Competition in economics is the incentive that has brought the majority of westerners from Companies compete for shareholders by satisfying as many customers as possible. If states can compete for the best deal for international business, companies can better serve people, and those states can house centres of international trade. It’s not just abstract talk, but incentives that drive us to live different everyday li…

The corporation that uses the roads and operates under the safety of the police and military of a country should not be paying some other country, it barely has anything to do with, a lower tax due to some accounting shenanigans.

Re: Global minimum corporate tax: 130 nations to support U.S. proposal

#205

Post by robomartin » Thu, Jul 01, 2021, 9:41 PM UTC

realityking wrote: post #175

robomartin wrote: post #157

Earlier quoted context omitted.

65% of Americans have no clue what it takes to run a business of any scale. They can barely calculate a tip at the restaurant, yet they think they are qualified to make decisions on taxation. The flavor of democracy we practice has been good. However, we must be honest enough to admit it can degenerate into mob rule, which generally means decisions are made by the most gullible and ignorant among us on any specific t…

> In a globalized economy we need lower taxes. Zero would be an even better number. Isn’t that point precisely addressed by the Biden administrations of setting a global minimum tax rate? If every country, or at least every country without signify the trade barriers (who cares what happens in North Korea) has the same tax rate than there’s no incentive for companies to move their profits - or the entire company - abr…

If you think China and others will abide by this nonsense you might need to review how business is supported by government in China.

Did you know they can export products at cost and still make up to 15% on their international sales? The world is not a level playing field.

Did you know it costs them darn near zero dollars to ship products within the US, while US companies have to pay full fare?

The ONLY way the US and Europe could rebuild a solid industrial base lost to China is to be so pro-business it would make most of the uninformed projectile vomit. If we can do that and maintain it for 25 to 50 years we might have a shot at it. Nothing else will work.

Either we are a nation of pro-business entrepreneurs to the core or we resign ourselves to living in outsourced utopia. That’s how bad it has gotten.

Pick any product and try to source all of its components and manufacturing in the US or Europe. You won’t get far. In most cases it is simply impossible.

If we want a solid future we need to stop vilifying business. The 65% who don’t have a clue will learn this only when it is too late to do anything about it.

Perspective: We couldn’t make PPE, the materials they require and the machines we would need to make them.

Re: Global minimum corporate tax: 130 nations to support U.S. proposal

#206

Post by dantheman » Thu, Jul 01, 2021, 9:41 PM UTC

ericffr wrote: post #104

repsilat wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Isn't it a consensus position among economists that corporate taxation is inefficient and badly targeted? That taxes on individuals (wages, goods&services, capital gains) and on land are easier to collect and better at providing desired incentives? Really, isn't a "race to the bottom" a virtuous cycle here? Kinda weird to see Yellen -- Treasury Secretary and former Fed Chair -- making this kind of statement.

Her point is that no country can survive with zero tax. Everyone knows that. In order to have roads, schools, hospitals, parks, police, you need everyone to chip in, specially huge corporations who know how to subvert the system for their own benefit (meaning their shareholders)

Why not just have property tax and pay everything off that?

Re: Global minimum corporate tax: 130 nations to support U.S. proposal

#207

Post by asteroidbelt » Thu, Jul 01, 2021, 9:44 PM UTC

asdfasgasdgasdg wrote: post #76

mustafa_pasi wrote: post #40

This is a new kind of imperialism. The G7 makes up the rules, under the guise of fighting tax evasion or financing of terrorist activities. Then they make all the less powerful countries comply to those rules. If they do not, they get greylisted or blacklisted by some "international" watchdog, making it much harder for those countries to participate in the global economy. Of course only the poorer less influential co…

It does seem like e.g. the US could impose this unilaterally. You, a company, have to make two tax returns: one on all the money you made here, and one on all the money you and/or your relevant "parent" corporation made elsewhere. Same rules to calculate taxes in both cases. On the latter return, you can subtract the sum of the taxes you paid elsewhere from the tax owed. The rest belongs to the US government. At that…

Yes, this is exactly what the US does with US citizens: they pay the maximum of the US income taxes and the residence country income taxes.

Re: Global minimum corporate tax: 130 nations to support U.S. proposal

#208

Post by djbebs » Thu, Jul 01, 2021, 9:46 PM UTC

axlee wrote: post #61

motohagiography wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I thought their whole schtick was "one world government," which is precisely what colluding to destroy tax competition is, as is banning capital flight which results from abusive policy.

colluding: to act together secretly or illegally in order to deceive or cheat someone. And please: capital flight being the results of abusive policy? Corporations and wealthy individuals will always try to avoid giving the fair share to the society that enabled their wealth in the first place: the case where wealth moves because of abusive policies is so marginal in the ocean of pure greed. Some countries are fiscal…

Rich people are the only ones paying anything at all. If that's not paying their fair share, how are the 50% of people who don't pay any income taxes at all paying their fair share?

Re: Global minimum corporate tax: 130 nations to support U.S. proposal

#209

Post by 3pt14159 » Thu, Jul 01, 2021, 9:47 PM UTC

magila wrote: post #195

lordnacho wrote: post #171

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The difference is it can be a realised gain that you'd then not pay tax on. Eg the Corp makes 100 in profits but at zero it doesn't pay out anything. For unrealised gains you're right, there's no difference.

Ok, but corp owner still can't benefit from the gain without generating a taxable event. Either they pull the money out directly or receive a benefit in kind. In either case it gets taxed as regular income so in that sense the person would actually be in a worse tax situation assuming capital gains is taxed at a reduced rate.

Most things that wealthy people want that has to be purchased with after tax dollars, like I don't know a flight to visit a family member, they can pay for just fine out of the pittance they pay themselves in salary.

The real trick they pull is making everything a company. A man building a model rocket at home? That's with after taxed dollars. A man building a rocket to the moon? That's a business. Goes for all sorts of things. At some point you have to say, no, corporations please pay tax as you make it.

Re: Global minimum corporate tax: 130 nations to support U.S. proposal

#210

Post by pope_meat » Thu, Jul 01, 2021, 9:48 PM UTC

asteroidbelt wrote: post #192

pope_meat wrote: post #177

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm in the bottom 50% of the population money wise, but you're right, HN is definitely full of people in the top 10%, and so literally shortwire in their brains when I say something like "it's bad enough to where cutting ones nose to spite the face is starting to make sense" Because from your position it seems absurd. From mine it seems like the only move left to make.

> it's bad enough to where cutting ones nose to spite the face is starting to make sense What is the evidence that now is worse than say 30 years ago for the bottom 50%? It is perceived that it is worse now. But is it objectively worse?

Cost of education Cost of housing Cost of healthcare

went up.

Income

went down.

So I guess you're right, objectively things are much better, it's just my perception of paying 80% of my income to rent that's the problem.