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Tell HN: Don't root for WFH, it might destroy well-paying jobs

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Re: Tell HN: Don't root for WFH, it might destroy well-paying jobs

#131

Post by emodendroket »

neximo64 wrote: post #114
RestlessMind wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nope, it's much nicer to maintain your relative power and privilege. Stop being altruistic and learn from Doctors. If you don't fight for your power, it will be snatched from you and no one will care about you. Just ask all the former workers in the manufacturing sector in midwest, whose only available career option now is to work at a Walmart. Do you think it is "nice" for them to compete with a global pool of manuf…

Unless you also buy things that are more expensive (not 5% but 2-5x more pricey) simply because they're made in the US your argument holds no weight. You would have the cushey job because of the 'power' for a while. But it has nothing to do with altruism - to win you need to adapt and have the best product or service.

Naive to think that's why US wages are high.

Re: Tell HN: Don't root for WFH, it might destroy well-paying jobs

#132

Post by emodendroket »

nthngtshr wrote: post #48

I'm in SV. What a horrible take. Globalization of tech jobs is net positive for the whole world including the US. We're all gonna have more thing made cheaper and faster, isn't that great? I can see how you can argue it's not the case with some industries, e.g steel and coal (see poverty in Appalachia), because it's hurting those communities. But this is tech, we already have it way too easy. I say let's double down…

> We're all gonna have more thing made cheaper and faster, isn't that great?

Not really, if the savings come at our expense.

Re: Tell HN: Don't root for WFH, it might destroy well-paying jobs

#133

Post by emodendroket »

mind-blight wrote: post #22
unethical_ban wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's all well and good until you're the one who loses your job. Then you can root for the non-US worker's family who got your job for half the salary. Enjoy your American-owned employer making more money for its stockholders and executives while it continues not paying taxes, to a country that doesn't federally provide basic social services. There is something to be said for watching out for your community. The onl…

This rhetoric may make sense when the job market is gutted, there's a much larger supply of qualified tech workers than demand, and we've reached a global maxima that forces us all into a zero sum competition for capital (think coke vs. Pepsi). That will definitely push pay down. However, that's almost the opposite of where we are now. The demand for tech workers is growing, and that greens will likely continue for d…

So they should wait until all the negative things come to pass before warning about them?

Re: Tell HN: Don't root for WFH, it might destroy well-paying jobs

#134

Post by emodendroket »

WanderPanda wrote: post #112
zaphirplane wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How will that help ? A person living in city x needs to be paid y to have a z quality of life. In another city they would need to be paid another amount to have the same quality of life. Zero to do with their occupation

Salary is not about providing a certain level of quality of life for an employee. It is about the value the employee can create for the company. There part of the value can be due to the synergies of being physically close. In the mid term the salary will be dependent on what the employee brings to the table and not how expensive his lifestyle is (at least in companies that will do well in the long term)

That is true from the company's perspective but from a community's perspective pretty disastrous.

Re: Tell HN: Don't root for WFH, it might destroy well-paying jobs

#135

Post by twelve40 »

helij wrote: post #118
RestlessMind wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This has a flywheel effect where once you start gathering critical mass in a place, the original experts lose their edge eventually. See what happened to manufacturing, where China is leaps and bounds ahead of Western nations.

You haven't seen any european factories did you? They are proper high-tech in comparison to your average chinese one. What people might not realise that manufacturing is still going on in Europe and US. It's just that less people are working in factories. Output is 'more' than in decades before. Automation and all that.

> less people are working

i think that's kind of his point

Re: Tell HN: Don't root for WFH, it might destroy well-paying jobs

#136

Post by jacknews »

lordnacho wrote: post #64

But outsourcing already exists, with well known pros and cons. I would be a bit surprised if this WFH thing meant that everything went offshore. There is still a huge culture gap to bridge that sure enough some firms will try, but enough others will not. Even hiring an English speaker in India would put off a fair number of people, and that's despite us all knowing that IIT grads are pretty smart. What I do think wil…

Exactly, WFH is different to outsourcing, offshoring, etc.

Re: Tell HN: Don't root for WFH, it might destroy well-paying jobs

#137

Post by bradlys »

hangonhn wrote: post #26

If someone can do what I do here in SV for half the price or less but do it just as well or even better but else where in the world, I don't feel how I'm entitled to my current salary. It's a bit hypocritical for us to bemoan this when software engineers in SV also automated people in other industries out of jobs. People outside of SV, outside of tech, and the US are people too. Don't they also deserve a chance at pr…

I’m pretty sure this mentality is what causes the constant gutting of the middle class in the US.

It’s not like the income is distributed equally outside the US. It’s a cost savings. So, they’re gonna spend less and who gets to keep all the money? Exec team.

Re: Tell HN: Don't root for WFH, it might destroy well-paying jobs

#139

Post by ryandrake »

cudgy wrote: post #77
zeroonetwothree wrote: post #54

People have been worried about this since the 90s. But it hasn't stopped compensation from increasing dramatically. Demand for software work is only increasing. The more software we create, the more valuable marginal software becomes. The total number of software engineers has doubled every 5 years for a long time. Of course that won't continue forever but there's no reason to think it will stop very soon either. For…

“People have been worried about this since the 90s. But it hasn't stopped compensation from increasing dramatically.” Software devs a few years out of university in places like Atlanta and Boston made 100k 20 years ago. How much more do they make now? Not much more. You must be thinking like a myopic Silicon Valley FAANG fan.

I was actually a fresh college grad a little over 20 years ago, and I can tell you we were not making even close to $100K. Maybe a few who lucked into Microsoft or SGI or something, but not the vast, vast majority. My first salary was $45K with no stock, back in 1998, which felt absolutely amazing and already put me far above the median US worker.

Re: Tell HN: Don't root for WFH, it might destroy well-paying jobs

#140

Post by ridiculous_leke »

fuckblaine wrote: post #56
tartoran wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The question of working 4 hours is more like 4 hours of intense work and honestly nobody in any industry could consistently put more than 4 hours a day without burning themselves up (or they’re some type A personality and feel miserable not working every single waking moment of their lives). Second, the IT industry has some of the highest burnout rates, that must have something to do with the amount of work put in, d…

oh cry me a river of tears. You obviously have no idea of what it is like to work 8-12 hours a day, for 6 days a week, of constant concentration for days, turning to months, turning to years on end. Get real - you've been spoilt and have no clue of how others earn a living

That looks like a problem you can solve by changing the company which is relatively easy in Tech/IT.
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