Gap to close all 81 stores in UK and Ireland • Hacker News Board

Re: Gap to close all 81 stores in UK and Ireland

#91

Post by tssva » Thu, Jul 01, 2021, 12:35 PM UTC

dayvid wrote: post #79

bgeeek wrote: post #36

Gap's problems for me: 1) Sticking Gap on everything. That kind-of logo/advertisement in huge lettering is great on the way up, but not on the way down. Superdry take note. You could not pay me to wear either. 2) Pricing and price point. It's frankly been bizarre for years. Overpriced when compared to new competitors, such as Uniqlo. Not quite good enough to compete with other stores, such as Levi's or more designer…

1) The only thing GAP has going for them IS brand recognition. Otherwise, they’re in some weird in-between of Old Navy and Banana Republic and there are numerous brands out there that have taken their market share (H&M, Uniqlo, etc.).

The problem is of their own creation since they are all the same parent company.

Re: Gap to close all 81 stores in UK and Ireland

#92

Post by bgeeek » Thu, Jul 01, 2021, 12:38 PM UTC

alias_neo wrote: post #86

bgeeek wrote: post #36

Gap's problems for me: 1) Sticking Gap on everything. That kind-of logo/advertisement in huge lettering is great on the way up, but not on the way down. Superdry take note. You could not pay me to wear either. 2) Pricing and price point. It's frankly been bizarre for years. Overpriced when compared to new competitors, such as Uniqlo. Not quite good enough to compete with other stores, such as Levi's or more designer…

I have never liked wearing obviously branded clothing, it always seemed counter-intuitive to me. People want to show off their brands, and I'm ok with that, but as a nerdy guy who has never had style as a priority (though I'm quite militant about the cut of one's suit being just right), it just isn't me, so that's always ruled out GAP for me in the past. If a brand splashes their name across the clothes they sell, I'…

I don't mind brands/logos but it's a double-edged sword. It's hard to like or want to wear something that's perceived to be in decline if there are logos/branding all over it. Gap, Superdry, Hollister all seem a bit passé to me. I still buy Gap, but never with the logo on it.

Uniqlo seem fairly on the ball. The single length trouser size is very astute, although problematic for me as I live outside of London. Basically, I don't bother to buy trousers from them as they will never fit. T-shirts and sweatshirts are fine though!

Re: Gap to close all 81 stores in UK and Ireland

#93

Post by altacc » Thu, Jul 01, 2021, 12:46 PM UTC

ckdarby wrote: post #80

lucideer wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Does your dream trend toward paying less for clothing which cost 1-10 EUR to produce or paying 100-200 EUR for clothing for which people were paid reasonably to produce? There's plenty of the latter out there if you're looking for it[0]. [0] https://www.fairwear.org/programmes/living-wage

Both, remove human labor in the process of making clothes altogether and have it produced cheaper.

Most clothes are complex items and the manufacture of them is very unlikely to ever be fully automated within a reasonable time frame (such as our lifetimes). People will always be a part of the process. Many tasks are just too expensive to automate vs a cheap labourer.

Clothes should be like many other things: cost more, have better quality, longer lifespans and have less negative impact on those who produce them and the environment where they are produced & recycled.

Re: Gap to close all 81 stores in UK and Ireland

#94

Post by lucian1900 » Thu, Jul 01, 2021, 12:57 PM UTC

arp242 wrote: post #88

durnygbur wrote: post #43

My dream is not paying 100-200 EUR for clothing which cost 1-10 EUR to produce. Don't care about your lifestyle, philosophy, trends, influencers, brand and logo. I want it vulgar - cash for good quality clothes.

I never quite understood the economics of clothing. Primark is well-known for being cheap, but also for having not exactly great quality, so clearly part of the cost-saving is in the production (e.g. materials, thickness, etc.) An average wage for a factory worker in Bangladesh seems about $0.33 USD; in Cambodia it's $0.85 USD; other countries are somewhere in between. I don't know how many clothes a single worker ca…

When production is only motivated by profit, why would any company choose to reduce its profits? That eventually leads to losing to the competition and more consolidation into fewer companies that are ever more ruthless.

You’re just observing how capitalism works. It’s why some of us would prefer rationally and democratically planned production motivated by needs.

Re: Gap to close all 81 stores in UK and Ireland

#95

Post by chrisstu » Thu, Jul 01, 2021, 1:25 PM UTC

te_chris wrote: post #54

chrisstu wrote: post #30

I'd say things have been heading south for Gap UK shops for the last 10 years and accelerated recently. They have been on a downward quality path for a long time with no apparent strategy. Every time you go back, they have different ranges, so no repeat purchases are even possible. Found something you like and want to buy again? Tough. And the quality got progressively worse. For basics like jeans and t-shirts, I swi…

I don't buy clothes at Muji but every time I've needed some of the home stuff from the Angel one it's been packed.

Ah, a fellow Islington local! I agree Muji is popular, but call it my retail 6th sense. Nice places like that just don't seem to survive in the UK. The retail market seems quite segmented into dirt cheap rubbish and ultra high end. The middle ground has been decimated, Gap being another example.

Re: Gap to close all 81 stores in UK and Ireland

#96

Post by chrisstu » Thu, Jul 01, 2021, 1:32 PM UTC

detritus wrote: post #31

chrisstu wrote: post #30

I'd say things have been heading south for Gap UK shops for the last 10 years and accelerated recently. They have been on a downward quality path for a long time with no apparent strategy. Every time you go back, they have different ranges, so no repeat purchases are even possible. Found something you like and want to buy again? Tough. And the quality got progressively worse. For basics like jeans and t-shirts, I swi…

Why do you think we'll lose Muji? Presumably you've tried UniQlo too?

I base the Muji prediction on their hopeless online presence, frequently changing stock items, the lack of customers in the clothing section and my experience with other UK retailers. I hope I'm wrong.

I've tried UniQlo but so far have been unable to find an item I want to buy in there. I seem to recall on a recent visit that their winter coats have goose down, which I avoid.

Re: Gap to close all 81 stores in UK and Ireland

#97

Post by doingitwell » Thu, Jul 01, 2021, 1:34 PM UTC

durnygbur wrote: post #43

My dream is not paying 100-200 EUR for clothing which cost 1-10 EUR to produce. Don't care about your lifestyle, philosophy, trends, influencers, brand and logo. I want it vulgar - cash for good quality clothes.

Asket. They include a break down of the landed cost on the site.

https://www.asket.com/au/shop/t-shirts/t-shirt-white

Re: Gap to close all 81 stores in UK and Ireland

#98

Post by barrkel » Thu, Jul 01, 2021, 1:56 PM UTC

alias_neo wrote: post #86

bgeeek wrote: post #36

Gap's problems for me: 1) Sticking Gap on everything. That kind-of logo/advertisement in huge lettering is great on the way up, but not on the way down. Superdry take note. You could not pay me to wear either. 2) Pricing and price point. It's frankly been bizarre for years. Overpriced when compared to new competitors, such as Uniqlo. Not quite good enough to compete with other stores, such as Levi's or more designer…

I have never liked wearing obviously branded clothing, it always seemed counter-intuitive to me. People want to show off their brands, and I'm ok with that, but as a nerdy guy who has never had style as a priority (though I'm quite militant about the cut of one's suit being just right), it just isn't me, so that's always ruled out GAP for me in the past. If a brand splashes their name across the clothes they sell, I'…

The point of visible branding is that you leverage the brand value and marketing yourself. By purchasing the product and showing the label, you rely on other people's opinions of the brand to colour their opinion of you. This can work either way, of course, but you get to choose the brand and, indirectly, the type of people you're trying to change the opinion of.

Chinos are a brand all of their own, just not a trademarked brand. They're usually (if they're pastel coloured) relatively conservative, business casual, more formal than jeans but less formal than a suit. A bit middle-aged, or something you'd expect to see a businessman in on the weekend. You can't really escape branding when you appear in public. Even if you showed up naked, it would be a brand.

I think there's a decent listing in https://www.upcounsel.com/trademark-vs-brand on the elements of brand:

    Identity
    Image
    Personality
    Character
    Culture
    Essence
    Reputation

You mark out which group you're a member of in part by the clothes you choose. Some groups are anti-labels and you're partially opting in to them by eschewing labels.

Re: Gap to close all 81 stores in UK and Ireland

#99

Post by alias_neo » Thu, Jul 01, 2021, 1:58 PM UTC

bgeeek wrote: post #92

alias_neo wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have never liked wearing obviously branded clothing, it always seemed counter-intuitive to me. People want to show off their brands, and I'm ok with that, but as a nerdy guy who has never had style as a priority (though I'm quite militant about the cut of one's suit being just right), it just isn't me, so that's always ruled out GAP for me in the past. If a brand splashes their name across the clothes they sell, I'…

I don't mind brands/logos but it's a double-edged sword. It's hard to like or want to wear something that's perceived to be in decline if there are logos/branding all over it. Gap, Superdry, Hollister all seem a bit passé to me. I still buy Gap, but never with the logo on it. Uniqlo seem fairly on the ball. The single length trouser size is very astute, although problematic for me as I live outside of London. Basical…

I had no idea they had a single-length trouser size. How does that work? Did I luck-out that they happen to be the perfect length for me, or is it directly tied to waist size rather than a global single-length?

I first came across Uniqlo when I was in Japan, and their "shove everything in this box and close the door to scan your items into the self-service checkout" impressed me (as an Engineer, I enjoy these things). They recently, in the past year or two, caught up here in the UK and the store I visit has them now.

Also I find their face masks to be the best fitting and most comfortable out of the many, many brands I've tried.

Re: Gap to close all 81 stores in UK and Ireland

#100

Post by RicoElectrico » Thu, Jul 01, 2021, 2:01 PM UTC

Tangential: Can someone from the industry chime in and say what was the reason for a drastic degradation in fabric quality over the last decade? I have some T-shirts from 10 years ago and they hold color, and didn't become fuzzy after dozen washes.

The only keyword I was able to find regarding cotton fabric quality was "ring-spun" vs "open-end" cotton.

The brand in question is Cropp (of Polish LPP, which makes most T-shirts in Bangladesh), but this degradation seems to be industry-wide. Even buying T-shirts from higher positioned brands doesn't make a difference. They're all crap quality.