Intuit sabotages the Child Tax Credit • Hacker News Board

Re: Intuit sabotages the Child Tax Credit

#201

Post by throwaway413 » Wed, Jun 30, 2021, 9:26 PM UTC

stouset wrote: post #200

throwaway413 wrote: post #192

All of the people supercritical of Intuit in this thread make me wonder, do they think the government would truly be providing a service on par with TurboTax? When has the government ever done Internet right…looking at you, Healthcare.gov. $90 bucks a year to ensure your taxes are right, with a streamlined interface that almost anyone can follow, that returns you back significant value in time and tax return… Intuit…

The government literally already computes the number they expect you to owe. It's how they send you a letter if your own calculations come up short (or long, in which case they will in fact contact you to issue you a refund). If the government simply sends you their calculations ( which they are already computing anyway ) and you disagree, you would still be able to file an amended return with a company like TurboTax…

To be honest, I don’t know much at all about how taxes work in other countries, including those at or greater than the population scale of the US.

It’s a good point, I will learn more about it.

Regarding the first point. You trust the government to do that for you? Genuinely asking. I have no stance formed on that yet.

Re: Intuit sabotages the Child Tax Credit

#202

Post by skeeter2020 » Wed, Jun 30, 2021, 9:29 PM UTC

throwaway413 wrote: post #192

All of the people supercritical of Intuit in this thread make me wonder, do they think the government would truly be providing a service on par with TurboTax? When has the government ever done Internet right…looking at you, Healthcare.gov. $90 bucks a year to ensure your taxes are right, with a streamlined interface that almost anyone can follow, that returns you back significant value in time and tax return… Intuit…

In Canada (Alberta) but recently used their health link portal and was very impressed with almost all of it. I don't want the government competing with private organizations in what are clearaly market-driven domains, but income tax preparation against a few oligopolistic predators? Absolutely!

>> $90 bucks a year to ensure your taxes are right

Did you read the article? This is about how Intuit defeated an effort to provide credits to very poor people who might not even file a return by saying "we'll take care of this for you" then creating an obivously sub-par product. This market doesn't have $90 for this specific service, or likely a computer beyond their phone.

Re: Intuit sabotages the Child Tax Credit

#203

Post by caslon » Wed, Jun 30, 2021, 9:31 PM UTC

KorematsuFred wrote: post #153

toomuchtodo wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

https://www.propublica.org/article/inside-turbotax-20-year-f... https://www.propublica.org/series/the-turbotax-trap “ProPublica has long detailed how Intuit, the maker of TurboTax, and other companies have worked against making tax preparation easier and less costly. They have lobbied to ban the IRS from offering free, simple tax filing. And they have deceived customers who should qualify for the Free File product.”

I find this criticism somewhat weird. It is very common for companies or even individuals to promote and support policies that benefit themselves. Intuit is seeking self interest here. But why would IRS and our elected representatives cave in ? Are these people so clueless or unethical that they do not care about their constituents anymore ? And if that is the case I don't see how anyone can bell the intuit's cat.

By your logic, here, an independent actor doing something to terminate the employees and stakeholders of Intuit would be completely blameless, if not celebrated by the people of the United States.

It's not even a slippery slope to imply that acting in self-interest is always excusable: By the time you've gotten to that point, you're already at the bottom of any and every slippery slope. There are lines that we as a species have collectively are inexcusable to cross in self-interest, and without them life gets a lot worse for nearly everyone.

Re: Intuit sabotages the Child Tax Credit

#204

Post by skeeter2020 » Wed, Jun 30, 2021, 9:32 PM UTC

slg wrote: post #64

jakelazaroff wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How do you propose to garner support to fix the system without drawing attention to the bad actors? "A multi-billion dollar company has been lobbying the IRS so it can steal money from the most vulnerable taxpayers" is far more compelling than "poor people pay more taxes than they have to".

>How do you propose to garner support to fix the system without drawing attention to the bad actors? Is there any evidence that drawing attention to bad actors actually garners political support to fix this? Look at the comments here, almost everyone is talking about the problems with Intuit and not how to fix this systemically. What we need is grassroots political change. This specific issue regarding tax prep is a…

>> What we need is grassroots political change.

I'd argue that someone drawing attention to specific bad actors is implicitly saying "stop these people from doing this" which is far more actionable than your generic "What we need is wide-spread, bipartisan support for change". What am I supposed to do with that?

Re: Intuit sabotages the Child Tax Credit

#205

Post by throwaway413 » Wed, Jun 30, 2021, 9:33 PM UTC

skeeter2020 wrote: post #202

throwaway413 wrote: post #192

All of the people supercritical of Intuit in this thread make me wonder, do they think the government would truly be providing a service on par with TurboTax? When has the government ever done Internet right…looking at you, Healthcare.gov. $90 bucks a year to ensure your taxes are right, with a streamlined interface that almost anyone can follow, that returns you back significant value in time and tax return… Intuit…

In Canada (Alberta) but recently used their health link portal and was very impressed with almost all of it. I don't want the government competing with private organizations in what are clearaly market-driven domains, but income tax preparation against a few oligopolistic predators? Absolutely! >> $90 bucks a year to ensure your taxes are right Did you read the article? This is about how Intuit defeated an effort to…

I was commenting on the generic complaint you hear about Intuit’s fees for tax preparation, not on this article’s content specifically.

The website from the article is pure crap, I’ll say that.

Re: Intuit sabotages the Child Tax Credit

#206

Post by mattb314 » Wed, Jun 30, 2021, 9:34 PM UTC

recursive wrote: post #19

That warning is terrifying. > Do NOT use this online form if you're required to file a tax return. Use of this online form creates a simplified 2020 tax return. If you're required to file a tax return but file a simplified return instead, you won't be able to e-file your 2020 Form 1040 or 1040-SR tax return. This will delay the IRS processing your return and issuing any tax refund. So... what? Do not use this site if…

Free fillable forms is hard to use for taxes in general, but this page is specifically for people who want the CTC without having filed taxes (presumably you otherwise would have gotten the CTC when you filed takes). You can see the screenshot says "non-filer sign up tool", where as the main page of the website (for people who want to actually use it to file taxes) has no such warning: https://www.freefilefillableforms.com/#/fd

Re: Intuit sabotages the Child Tax Credit

#207

Post by skeeter2020 » Wed, Jun 30, 2021, 9:34 PM UTC

slg wrote: post #114

burnished wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So just.. leave the bad actors out of the narrative? It feels like if one does that, then you come back and say "but who is doing [bad thing]? where is the evidence?". You can't just leave the people causing the problem out, as if it were some how rude to name the people pissing in the pool.

I never said we need to leave the bad actors out of the narrative. I am simply talking about not placing the blame on them. It is the equivalent of a blameless postmortem. We are in a constant cycle of firing interns for pushing costly bugs into production without ever wondering why we are allowing interns to push to production without supervision. We just fire the intern and think the problem is fixed. We have learn…

Would you fire an intern who intentionally and repeatedly pushed broken code to production because for whatever reason it was in their best interest? We fire bad actors all the time.

Re: Intuit sabotages the Child Tax Credit

#208

Post by verall » Wed, Jun 30, 2021, 9:36 PM UTC

cbhl wrote: post #25

dhosek wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Around 2009 my taxes grew complicated enough that I could no longer do them by hand and had to start using tax software for them. I've consistently refused to use TurboTax because the company is so evil. H&R Block is not necessarily a more ethical company, but at the very least, there's not more unethical. (And I'm vaguely aware of there being some open-source tax software of some sort out there, but when I looked it…

Is H&R block actually an independent code base? The last time I opened it, it looked like a page-for-page copy of TurboTax, which made me wonder whether it was just a white-label reskin of the same.

I've went through both H&R block and turbotax's flows this previous year, and although heavily inspired, it did not seem like a reskin. Certain info was organized differently, etc.

After being completely ready to spend $40 or whatever it was for the "Basic Premium" offering of each, BOTH H&R and turbotax silently upgraded me to "Self-employed" (I am not) and said I was free to pay the ~$100 or delete my account and make a new one.

"TaxSlayer" finally let me file for like $30 or something.

Re: Intuit sabotages the Child Tax Credit

#209

Post by bingidingi » Wed, Jun 30, 2021, 9:37 PM UTC

alkonaut wrote: post #185

bingidingi wrote: post #161

Earlier quoted context omitted.

i reckon people hate filling out tax forms by hand more than turbotax… and within good reason, even if you’re educated it can be frustrating to simply read tax regulations (which turbotax translates to simple english), and there’s a lot of anxiety around messing it up unfortunately turbotax is also one of the major players trying to prevent tax simplification… so they’ve got a great scheme going anyway there are more…

I really don't get the money side of US politics. How do these companies use money (presumably) do sway politicians? Just openly contribute to individual politicians/think tanks/PACs? How do they launder the money Is that what the PACs do? Make sure Joe Politican can get the money, but isn't seen handed a bag of cash from a company? Or is it simply that accepting campaign donations from corporations isn't seen as cor…

Here's one example: I've called my congressman to complain about his support for the Taxpayer First Act (which enables Intuit), his campaign received $16k from Intuit and H&R block. They spent a combined $6 million or so on lobbying to get it passed.

The act, among other things, removed the requirement for the IRS to report on their development of return-free tax filing.

Direct PAC donations are allowed up to $5k. Super PACs are meant to be independent, can't work directly with politicians or campaigns... and therefore have to such limits. They're very often used for "indirect" lobbying.

It's a scam and everyone knows it. The people empowered by the scam are the only ones who can change it.

Re: Intuit sabotages the Child Tax Credit

#210

Post by nimish » Wed, Jun 30, 2021, 9:44 PM UTC

paulproteus wrote: post #194

I work at Code for America on the Tax Benefits team, and we're working on a different website to apply for the Child Tax Credit. (See https://www.getctc.org/ and https://www.getyourrefund.org/ . ) From the original article: > Alas, all [People's Policy Project's website] can do is funnel users into Intuit's terrible [child tax credit] site. Today at work, I'm learning how to use the IRS's e-File SOAP API in the hopes…

How did you get access to the SOAP api? Doesn't it need a bunch of verification and special dev accounts with IRS ? Would be great for the docs to be public.

>To receive the distribution of schema packages, you must have an active e-services account and be listed on an e-File application with the provider option of Software Developer. Your role on the e-File Application must be Principal, Responsible Official, or a Delegated User with MeF authorities. If you are a registered user in e-services and are listed on a State e-File application, you will receive this distribution.