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Intuit sabotages the Child Tax Credit

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Re: Intuit sabotages the Child Tax Credit

#161

Intuit is consistently one of the least ethical actors in tech. They have a monopoly position in many of their products and take advantage of some of the poorest people through misinformation and lobbying. Facebook & Uber have received most of the heat over the past few years. Intuit has strangely avoided the same level of scrutiny.

i reckon people hate filling out tax forms by hand more than turbotax… and within good reason, even if you’re educated it can be frustrating to simply read tax regulations (which turbotax translates to simple english), and there’s a lot of anxiety around messing it up

unfortunately turbotax is also one of the major players trying to prevent tax simplification… so they’ve got a great scheme going

anyway there are more and more free options every year so let’s hope that can start hurting them… I’ve used creditkarma for a couple simple years and it’s great

Re: Intuit sabotages the Child Tax Credit

#162
post #45

How do we know that this is actually Intuit itself & not the IRS trying to reduce CTC payouts. After all, their enforcement budget keeps getting squeezed & they keep struggling to prosecute high dollar issues. Reducing their tax credits is a good way to improve the balance of the federal government.

Reducing the tax credit disbursements won't help the IRS budget. They have no incentive to do so.

I didn't mean to imply it would somehow help the IRS budget directly. I was saying it helps the Federal Government's overall deficit. The IRS isn't some body immune from political pressure. The leadership is appointed by POTUS & confirmed by the Senate.

Regardless of which political party is responsible, the Federal government has a lot of benefits programs that have a lot of roadblocks to actually take advantage of. That isn't an accident. You could look at it as the GOP tending to send up roadblocks (e.g. they famously forced the IRS to strike a deal with Intuit) OR you can look at it as a class divide where the GOP are just the "baddies" everyone can scream about without actually needing to hold the government accountable.

Re: Intuit sabotages the Child Tax Credit

#163

Earlier quoted context omitted.

https://www.propublica.org/article/inside-turbotax-20-year-f... https://www.propublica.org/series/the-turbotax-trap “ProPublica has long detailed how Intuit, the maker of TurboTax, and other companies have worked against making tax preparation easier and less costly. They have lobbied to ban the IRS from offering free, simple tax filing. And they have deceived customers who should qualify for the Free File product.”

I find this criticism somewhat weird. It is very common for companies or even individuals to promote and support policies that benefit themselves. Intuit is seeking self interest here. But why would IRS and our elected representatives cave in ? Are these people so clueless or unethical that they do not care about their constituents anymore ? And if that is the case I don't see how anyone can bell the intuit's cat.

> why would IRS and our elected representatives cave in?

money.

Re: Intuit sabotages the Child Tax Credit

#164

What's telling is that TurboTax's UX is really, really, good, deceptive pricing aside. Like, so good I almost enjoy using it to do my taxes. The very fact that Intuit has clearly invested money into making a beautiful interface for a tax program, a program that people use once a year , just goes to show how profitable the current arrangement is for them, and how determined they are to keep the average taxpayer from s…

Their other big (maybe bigger?) cash cow for Intuit is Quickbooks. It's the system most small businesses use, because their accountants are integrated with it and push all their clients to use it.

Yep. Accountants don't want to try anything else.

And it's shocking how bad some of the QBO integrations are, especially for newish technologies. Intuit even screwed up PayPal in a way that some accountants don't want to use it (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kT5zKWBXtQU), forcing a labor intensive manual process.

Re: Intuit sabotages the Child Tax Credit

#165

Intuit is a perfect example to me of the flawed reality in a libertarian ideology. We know they’re terrible, we know their products aren’t great… yet where are all the meaningful competitors? People who are at least meeting their bar if not substantially exceeding it? It’s not like this is a new industry that takes time to bake. Where are the YC startups trying to take them on? Meanwhile they continue to make live ex…

Aside from the fact you are wrong about there being no competition, In the libertarian ideology income based taxation is unethical theft, thus under libertarian ideology Intuit tax software would not be needed at all, thus no reason for them to lobby congress, etc

Re: Intuit sabotages the Child Tax Credit

#166

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It may be apocrypha, but supposedly Intuit years ago realized that people don't think the system "worked hard enough" if results returned immediately. (These kind of calculations are what computers do well and generally return immediately.) Supposedly Intuit has been A/B testing for decades how many artificial delays to give people the impression that the system is "working harder" for them. They intentionally want t…

It wasn't even the stupid "spinning numbers" thing that slowed us down. Mostly it was being locked into wizards asking us one question at a time. Dialog: Do you have foreign bank accounts? Y/N Next dialog: Do you have foreign investments? Y/N Next dialog: ... For every single damn thing. FreeTaxUSA put them all in a list so we just clicked on the applicable ones. It was much more efficient. And if you have to go back…

I always go to the forms and ignore the interview.

I haven't found any other software that is practical to use in this way and has all the forms I need.

I tried H&R Block's free software one year, I think, because I was mad at Intuit, but it was useless because there were big gaping holes in the functionality.

Re: Intuit sabotages the Child Tax Credit

#167

What should I use to file my taxes if I want to move away from TurboTax?

If you are willing to do ALL of the leg work yourself, https://www.irs.gov/e-file-providers/free-file-fillable-form...

> ALL of the leg work yourself

Every year, I go ahead and self-prepare my taxes, and then type all the data into Turbotax to see if they find something I missed, and every year they do, and it's in my favor (and always worth more than the Turbotax fee). OTOH, I've seen suggestions that Intuit themselves have had a hand in making the tax preparation process so complex that humans can't possibly get it right without them.

Re: Intuit sabotages the Child Tax Credit

#168

Given how much H&R Block and Intuit have unethically and corruptly leeched from the government and the taxpayers directly, I think the should literally be nationalized and have their tax software platforms absorbed into the IRS. Their company activities over the last few decades are so flagrantly, indisputably bad for the country. There's literally no upside, none at all. They have intentionally sabotaged tax filing…

Corporate death penalty. If corporations are people, and the USA insists on keeping the barbaric death penalty, at least they should use it on companies. Exxon would be another nice target.

> Corporate death penalty

Corporations are legal fictions. If you're wiping out shareholders and creditors, who do the assets go to? If you aren't wiping them out, what are you doing? Corporate death penalties are ultimately meaningless without an expropriation component.

Better: massive fines and/or pulling critical licenses. Arthur Andersen and Enron were felled through these mechanisms. They are legal. They are proven. They are precedented and they work.

If you wantonly break the law, you should not be a going concern. But "nationalization" and "corporate death penalty" are political hot potatoes. (I'm entirely sidestepping the argument as to whether that's reasonable.) If you want these companies shut down, or fearful of being shut down, credibly threatening to break them up, fine them into bankruptcy or suspend their licenses (e.g. for Intuit, their tax preparation license) is more effective.

Re: Intuit sabotages the Child Tax Credit

#169
post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For sure. The IRS needs to offer a tax preparation platform, the grift in this industry is astounding. I've always had decent experiences with TurboTax, but they've gotten extremely good at making your taxes hell if you want to avoid giving them $89.99.

This year we tried doing our taxes using both TurboTax and FreeTaxUSA. TurboTax has a much worse interface, it took almost twice as long to complete the taxes despite having an identical return. TurboTax did find about $50 more return for us somehow despite having entered the same information into both sites, but that amount is less than the fee TurboTax would charge so we ended up submitting through FreeTaxUSA inste…

> TurboTax did find about $50 more return for us somehow

Don’t you have to sign to say that you’re entitled to that return? How are you doing it if you don’t understand where it’s coming from?

Re: Intuit sabotages the Child Tax Credit

#170

Yet another case where letting the free market handle things results in bad outcomes.

This is not the free market, it’s a perfect example of what’s wrong with government. The fact that the IRS rules are set by politicians and bureaucrats, not accountable to market forces, are what allows this corrupt situation to persist in the first place.

You can’t say “the IRS makes this too complicated in order to funnel money into Intuit’s pocket so I am going to pay my taxes elsewhere.”

And it's a perfect example of why accepting broad government power provides an avenue for this sort of corruption to exist, especially in areas that people don't care enough about to spend time influencing government policy.

In a free market, it requires very little effort for you to make your opinion felt - you give your money to the people you think have the best product. Done. Those people see that they are making money - the people with lesser products see they are losing money. This requires very little effort on your part other than forming an opinion on what product you want to use.

In the government, what can you do if you think the IRS is doing a shitty job? Write a letter to your Congressmen? Vote for another Congressman in 2 years (what if you agree with their position on the IRS, but disagree on something more important, e.g. guns?) Run for office yourself?

The result is that relatively little attention is paid to public policy around tax preparation. There are no single-issue voters around IRS Free-file policy. There is too much else going on in national politics that is inarguably more important. And because no one really cares about this other than the tax preparation industry, the tax preparation industry is left largely unchallenged in pushing government to enact regulations that favor them.

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