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GitHub Copilot as open source code laundering?

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Re: GitHub Copilot as open source code laundering?

#321
Check out the comments on the original post about GitHub co-pilot.

The top one reads just like an ad: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27676845

Some posts that definitely aren't by shills (including the third one because I simply don't believe there's a person on the planet that "can't remember the last time Windows got in my way"): https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27678231 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27686416 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27682270

Very mild, yet negative sentiment opinion (downvoted quickly): https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27676942

Re: GitHub Copilot as open source code laundering?

#322

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> When AI inevitably outperforms humans on almost all tasks Correct me if I’m wrong, but is that even possible? I kind of thought that AI is just set of fancy statistical models that requires some (preferably huge) data set in order to infer the best fit. These models can only outperform humans in scenarios where the parameters are well defined. Many (most?) tasks humans regularly perform don’t have clean and well de…

> Correct me if I’m wrong, but is that even possible? Why should it be impossible? Arguing that it's impossible for an AI to outperform a human on almost all tasks is like arguing that it's impossible for flying machines to outperform birds. There's nothing magical going on in our heads. It's just a set of chemical gradients and electrical signals that result in us doing or thinking particular things. Why can't we de…

There might be limit to how efficiently a general purpose machine can perform a specific task, similar to the Heisenberg uncertainty principal in quantum physics. That is to say, there might be a natural law that dictates that the more generic a machine is, the more power it requires to perform specific tasks. Our brains are kind of specialized. If you want to build a machine that outperforms humans in a single task, no problem, we’ve done that many times over. But a machine that can outperform us in any task, that might just be impossible.

Re: GitHub Copilot as open source code laundering?

#323

I don't see the point of this tool, independent of the resulting code being derivative of GPL code or not. being able to produce valid code is not the bottleneck of any developer effort. no projects fail because code can't be typed quickly enough. the bottleneck is understanding how the code works, how to design things correctly, how to make changes in accordance with the existing design, how to troubleshoot existing…

It doesn’t calm to solve the bottleneck either. On the contrary, it clearly states that its mission is to solve the easy parts better so developers can focus better on the true challenging engineering problems as you mentioned.

Re: GitHub Copilot as open source code laundering?

#324

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Alternatively, wait for co-pilot to add support for C++, then start writing an operating system with Win32-compatible API using co-pilot. There is plenty of leaked Windows source code on Github, so chances are that co-pilot would give quite good suggestions for implementing a Win32-compatible kernel. Then watch and see if Microsoft will try to argue that you are violating their copyright using code generated by their…

Oh man, that got meta super fast. Its like a mobius strip!

The nice thing about co-pilot is that it will suggest to do the same mistakes as in other software. If you accept all autosuggestions in C++ you might end up with Windows.

Re: GitHub Copilot as open source code laundering?

#325

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> This means that, for most open-source projects, code generated by Github co-pilot is, right now, NOT acceptable in the project. For this scenario, how is using Co-Pilot generated code different from using code based on sample code, Stack Overflow answers, etc.?

A number of company, including Google and probably Microsoft forbid copying code from Stack Overflow because there is no explicit license

TIL, thank you!

Re: GitHub Copilot as open source code laundering?

#326
post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Every decade was supposed to see fewer hours working for higher pay and quality of life. It didn't happen, as business owners (not just 1% fat cats, the owners of mom and pop shops are at least as guilty as anyone, they just sucked at scaling their avarice). So the claim that this technological revolution will be different and that it will result in a broad social safety net, universal basic income, and substantive,…

> those left behind working more hours for less Doing what? Isn't the concern here that automation will push many people out of the workforce entirely?

Well as long as humans are more energy-efficient to deploy than robots you will always have a job. It might mean conditions for most humans will be like a century ago.

Re: GitHub Copilot as open source code laundering?

#327

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> This means that, for most open-source projects, code generated by Github co-pilot is, right now, NOT acceptable in the project. For this scenario, how is using Co-Pilot generated code different from using code based on sample code, Stack Overflow answers, etc.?

I'd say that it depends on the license; for StackOverflow, it's CC-BY-SA 4.0 [1]. For sample code, that would depend on the license of the original documentation. My point is: when I'm copying code from a source with an explicit license, I know whether I'm allowed to copy it. If I pick code from co-pilot, I have no idea (until tested by law in my jurisdiction) whether said code is public domain, AGPL, proprietary, in…

That makes sense, thank you.

Re: GitHub Copilot as open source code laundering?

#328
Honestly I think a large part of the value add of machine learning is going to be the ability for huge entities to launder intellectual property violations.

As an example, my grandfather (an old school EE who got his start on radar systems in the 50s, who then got his radiology MD when my jewish grandmother berated him enough with "engineer's not doctor though...") has some really cool patents around highlighting interesting parts of the frequency domain in MRIs that should make detection of cancer a whole lot easier. As an implementation he did a bunch of tensor calculus by hand to extract and highlight those features because he's an incredibly smart old school EE with 70 years experience cranking that kind of thing out with only his trusty slide rule. He hasn't gotten any uptake from MRI manufacturers, but they're all suddenly really into recurrent machine learning models to highlight the same sorts of stuff. Part of me wants to tell him to try selling it as a machine learning model and just obfuscate the fact that the model was carefully hand written rather than back propagated.

I'm personally pretty anti intellectual property (at least how it's implemented in the states), but a system where large entities that have the capital investment to compute the large ML models can launder IP violations, but little guys get stuck to the letter of the law certainly seems like the worst of both worlds to me.

Re: GitHub Copilot as open source code laundering?

#329

Honestly I think a large part of the value add of machine learning is going to be the ability for huge entities to launder intellectual property violations. As an example, my grandfather (an old school EE who got his start on radar systems in the 50s, who then got his radiology MD when my jewish grandmother berated him enough with "engineer's not doctor though...") has some really cool patents around highlighting int…

> Part of me wants to tell him to try selling it as a machine learning model and just obfuscate the fact that the model was carefully hand written rather than back propagated.

How many models are back-propagated first and then hand-tuned?

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