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‘Great Resignation’ gains steam as return-to-work plans take effect

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Re: ‘Great Resignation’ gains steam as return-to-work plans take effect

#371

Post by mdorazio »

Bishizel wrote: post #88
pjc50 wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> "hybrid" return to office policies where employees have to live within 100 miles of the office and be able to come in 1 day a week or 1 day a month depending on team. This is where I suspect a lot of places are going to end up in the medium term. I'm not back to the office in the first place, and I'm aware that I have a nice office and moderate commute, but I still want some wfh time, as well as some time seeing my…

The problem is that the req to live within 100mi doesn’t allow workers to fully engage in location arbitrage in the way the workers would like. I think most people want a better work/life balance, which is what all this ultimately represents. I imagine the eventual long term settle is somewhere more in the “wfh, but with team gatherings for a few days once a month” in a lot of industries.

I think you nailed it, but an added wrinkle is that I’ve seen a lot of people (myself included) have worse work/life balance with wfh. When there’s no separation between you and “the office” it’s very easy to just never stop working. The number of night time emails and after hours meetings I’ve gotten skyrocketed after everyone started working from home, and it’s a similar situation across my broader friends & coworkers cohort.

Re: ‘Great Resignation’ gains steam as return-to-work plans take effect

#372

Post by burlesona »

briefcomment wrote: post #167
burlesona wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not just slightly skewed. Also the HN audience is far more remote-oriented than I’ve encountered among my coworkers over the course of my career, including > 4 years working full-remote.

Anonymity probably accounts for a decent portion of the discrepancy (meaning some of your co-workers would probably be anti-WFH in person, and pro-WFH anonymously)

We’ll, I can’t prove or disprove that claim, but most of my coworkers have always been very candid with their preferences. I find it difficult to believe that there’s a large number of people who regularly say one thing while secretly believing the opposite.

Re: ‘Great Resignation’ gains steam as return-to-work plans take effect

#373

Post by majormajor »

TheCanuckster wrote: post #91
ProjectBarks wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is the exact sentiment I hold as well. I think the demographics of hacker news may be slightly swayed towards people who already have established networks and industry experience.

If this is the case, what are the forums people with less established networks and industry experience use? It would seem prudent to be aware of these other "HNs".

I think you'd be surprised by how many people don't really engage in outside-of-work anonymous programming forums, vs their personal contacts/friends/coworkers/ex-coworkers.

Re: ‘Great Resignation’ gains steam as return-to-work plans take effect

#374

Post by imbnwa »

munificent wrote: post #284
srswtf123 wrote: post #192

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I value having more control over what little time I have left alive This right here is the entire argument. It's about control , and nothing more. The pandemic displaced a large group of socially successful people from the social hierarchy. Those people want to return to the old normal because they want their status back. They want control back. "You'll do what you're told because I said so, that's why." lies at th…

I don't necessarily mean this in the context here of "work for a corporation" but one thing I have learned recently (thanks, therapy) is that one can lean too far in the direction of individual autonomy. At a base level, everyone wants a meaningful, fulfilled life. A key component of that is having enough autonomy and control to feel that your decisions matter because they are your decisions. But another important co…

> There's a reason that male suicide rates skyrocket not long after retirement. We are not happy alone and disconnected, even though being in that state in theory maximizes our personal autonomy.

That seems to be a completely artificial problem of the modern corporate first-world that discards or isolates anyone it doesn't find useful (the elderly and children) when, for a most of history; the elderly never stopped working in a meaningful capacity ever until they dropped or were incapacitated; children were working with their guardians much much more of the time without dipping into exploitative child labor of industrialism.

> But there are meaningful jobs out there and working together can be an important part of a fulfilling life.

It's like we're making the best of having our village raided for resources and saying some of the raiders don't take all the stuff (and they don't take nothing). What we need are appropriate walls so that our relationship with these outsiders can be one of trade/negotiation.

Re: ‘Great Resignation’ gains steam as return-to-work plans take effect

#375

Post by rajacombinator »

throwawaynumber wrote: post #252
dcolkitt wrote: post #15

I’m honestly perplexed what the FANGs are even thinking in being so aggressive about pushing an end to WFH. Sure it could all work out fine for them. Maybe employees will grumble for a bit, then settle back into office life. But maybe it wont’t . There’s a very real possibility that you lose a non-negligible percent of your staff (disproportionately the most talented who have other options), handicap your ability to…

Like most of hacker news, I think you vastly underestimate really how replaceable smart and skilled people really are. There are literally millions of them, most with far lower pay and conditions than offered by FANGS.

Have you ever tried hiring these people? At FAANG scale? Good luck …

Re: ‘Great Resignation’ gains steam as return-to-work plans take effect

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Post by rpmisms »

fartcannon wrote: post #146

They sent around a form at my work asking everyone what their preference would be. The first guy replied to everyone with his preference: 100% wfh. Since he replied-all, so did everyone else. We got through about 20 employees, all stating their preference as WFH before a manager shut down the reply-all. A week later we got an email saying people wanted 2-3 days in office.

Yeah, never did the chain email in my old job, but every single person I talked to wanted to stay remote. Management said "We're hearing that people want to come back to the office". After that, headcount dropped from ~40 to ~28, including me.

Re: ‘Great Resignation’ gains steam as return-to-work plans take effect

#377

Post by rajacombinator »

dcolkitt wrote: post #15

I’m honestly perplexed what the FANGs are even thinking in being so aggressive about pushing an end to WFH. Sure it could all work out fine for them. Maybe employees will grumble for a bit, then settle back into office life. But maybe it wont’t . There’s a very real possibility that you lose a non-negligible percent of your staff (disproportionately the most talented who have other options), handicap your ability to…

It seems to mostly be driven by managers who are not part of the productive class and therefore can’t perceive the hit to productivity and WLB the office incurs. If you spend your entire day in pointless meetings anyway, then yes, maximizing your commute time and “random office conversation” time is a rational choice. And it’s not like you can measure the productivity of the code monkeys anyway so who cares?

Re: ‘Great Resignation’ gains steam as return-to-work plans take effect

#378

Post by Luc »

achow wrote: post #166
hn_throwaway_99 wrote: post #42

In my experience at least talking to some younger people there is a clear dichotomy: despite all the talk about Gen Z being "digital natives", people new in their career are much hungrier to get back into the office because they don't yet have good career networks built up and they're eager for mentorship. It is older, or at least more established workers who are less keen on that. I don't think FAANGs will have any…

From a single, young: I miss the office for.. - Free and convenient food. - Social chatter & engagement. - Making friends with employees who I don't know and connecting with new employees. - Work life separation (balance). - Proper workstation, climate controlled environment. - Sense of belonging - team outing, after hours beers.. - Intra and inter company sports and games. - Meeting potential dates. [Not me. Just em…

> [Not me. Just empathizing]

You made it all up, right? Not cool to wait until the end to say so.

Re: ‘Great Resignation’ gains steam as return-to-work plans take effect

#379

Post by bobthepanda »

lotsofpulp wrote: post #281
bobthepanda wrote: post #249

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, the PNW just had record temps for three days straight (100+ F is unheard of with avg Seattle July highs of 77) and AC is an uncommon residential amenity that is usually offered at large offices. Does the office run the AC a bit cold? Yes, but to be honest when you reach almost too hot to sweat that's a nice problem to have.

Given someone is working a white collar, air conditioned office job, I would guess their probability of having AC at home is north of 90%. https://www.eia.gov/consumption/residential/reports/2009/air...

Seattle has an air-conditioning rate of about 44% as of 2019.

I know plenty of AMZN and MS employees without AC.

Re: ‘Great Resignation’ gains steam as return-to-work plans take effect

#380

Post by nr2x »

dcolkitt wrote: post #15

I’m honestly perplexed what the FANGs are even thinking in being so aggressive about pushing an end to WFH. Sure it could all work out fine for them. Maybe employees will grumble for a bit, then settle back into office life. But maybe it wont’t . There’s a very real possibility that you lose a non-negligible percent of your staff (disproportionately the most talented who have other options), handicap your ability to…

I was of the same mind until I saw the iOS/macOS reveal and now I’m fairly certain whatever WFH system Apple is doing isn’t working.
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