‘Great Resignation’ gains steam as return-to-work plans take effect • Hacker News Board

Re: ‘Great Resignation’ gains steam as return-to-work plans take effect

#291

Post by lotsofpulp » Wed, Jun 30, 2021, 5:39 PM UTC

Finnucane wrote: post #269

totalgeek wrote: post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Let's not also forget the ability to take your pay from say a major metropolitan area like San Francisco, and work remote where you get more bang for your buck like Wyoming. When I was working in the bay area I would've happily taken a 10-20% pay cut in order to work remote from anywhere. I would've been happy with a mandate of 'come into the office for a week (on the company dime of course) once a quarter, bi-annual…

Of course, a lot of people taking their big tech paychecks to some lower-cost place will just be exporting the problem to another place. A sudden big inflow of cash into a low-cost area is going to raise prices.

Some people earning more money and reducing the income/wealth gap is not a terrible problem to have. The rapid-ness might cause some friction in the short term, but the alternative of stagnation and deflation in the long term is a far worse problem.

Re: ‘Great Resignation’ gains steam as return-to-work plans take effect

#292

Post by taylodl » Wed, Jun 30, 2021, 5:40 PM UTC

ItsMonkk wrote: post #175

achow wrote: post #166

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From a single, young: I miss the office for.. - Free and convenient food. - Social chatter & engagement. - Making friends with employees who I don't know and connecting with new employees. - Work life separation (balance). - Proper workstation, climate controlled environment. - Sense of belonging - team outing, after hours beers.. - Intra and inter company sports and games. - Meeting potential dates. [Not me. Just em…

I experienced all of these to a much better degree during college. Are you sure you don't just want to live in a city that provides plenty of shared spaces? Relying on your employer for these items seems unwise.

This. So much this. Young professionals need to learn the difference between friends and colleagues. When working from home it's hard to blur that line.

As far as chatter goes, nobody wants that. It's distracting to those around you. When we were at the office we were chatting over IM to cut down on the noise. Guess what? We're still chatting over IM while WFH.

Besides, many companies are adopting a hybrid plan anyway. My team, which includes many young professionals, wants to go to the office once per month. Make good use of that time to build your network.

Re: ‘Great Resignation’ gains steam as return-to-work plans take effect

#293

Post by cmrdporcupine » Wed, Jun 30, 2021, 5:41 PM UTC

swiley wrote: post #237

dcolkitt wrote: post #15

I’m honestly perplexed what the FANGs are even thinking in being so aggressive about pushing an end to WFH. Sure it could all work out fine for them. Maybe employees will grumble for a bit, then settle back into office life. But maybe it wont’t . There’s a very real possibility that you lose a non-negligible percent of your staff (disproportionately the most talented who have other options), handicap your ability to…

Introspection is very hard for anyone running the world. That's why revolutions happen and there isn't a single dynasty stretching back to ancient times.

Pretty sure if revolution breaks out in the western world... it won't be started by overcompensated engineers upset that they have to go back to attending an office with free snacks/food and on-site massages.

Re: ‘Great Resignation’ gains steam as return-to-work plans take effect

#294

Post by jstepka » Wed, Jun 30, 2021, 5:42 PM UTC

Finnucane wrote: post #269

totalgeek wrote: post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Let's not also forget the ability to take your pay from say a major metropolitan area like San Francisco, and work remote where you get more bang for your buck like Wyoming. When I was working in the bay area I would've happily taken a 10-20% pay cut in order to work remote from anywhere. I would've been happy with a mandate of 'come into the office for a week (on the company dime of course) once a quarter, bi-annual…

Of course, a lot of people taking their big tech paychecks to some lower-cost place will just be exporting the problem to another place. A sudden big inflow of cash into a low-cost area is going to raise prices.

Since before anyone on this board was born companies, have adjusted pay based on location using charts like this;

https://www.usatoday.com/story/money/2019/05/25/us-dollar-ho...

To think this time is different is to be ignorant.

Re: ‘Great Resignation’ gains steam as return-to-work plans take effect

#295

Post by throwaway743 » Wed, Jun 30, 2021, 5:44 PM UTC

srswtf123 wrote: post #192

throwaway743 wrote: post #134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I mean, your examples of organizations are homogeneous in their nature, and borderline cult level communal. Unless you're in management or one of those workers who's an over zealous corporate kool-aid drinking yes-man who screams about company culture and has substituted any outside social life with the office and coworkers, these examples might be extreme and irrelevant. We're all slowly dying, and personally, I val…

> I value having more control over what little time I have left alive This right here is the entire argument. It's about control , and nothing more. The pandemic displaced a large group of socially successful people from the social hierarchy. Those people want to return to the old normal because they want their status back. They want control back. "You'll do what you're told because I said so, that's why." lies at th…

I couldn't agree with you more.

> Some of those displaced people have been revealed as frauds: they don't actually contribute value that is commensurate with their position in the hierarchy. And some of those who report to them have had just about enough of their shit.

Oh boy, I could share quite a few relevant stories (as I think many of here could too) that'd make your head spin. It's crazy to think of the number of these fraudsters out there and how awful it is for those who are forced to be stuck dealing with them/their actions day in day out. Been in that situation with a few managers in the past, and it's an understatement to say my time was stolen by them.

Re: ‘Great Resignation’ gains steam as return-to-work plans take effect

#296

Post by quaffapint » Wed, Jun 30, 2021, 5:44 PM UTC

mdorazio wrote: post #19

null_object wrote: post #12

I honestly don't know whether these articles are over-stating their case, and neither do I know how typical my own experience is, but for some reason it bothers me that the tone of the HN discussion is so reflexively dismissive. I understand that a lot of people will respond to a question of whether they intend to quit their job with a 'you bet!' even at the best of times, but I'm seeing a lot of people quitting and…

I can only speak from personal experience, but fwiw I'm currently consulting with 2 non-tech Fortune 500 companies. Both have implemented "hybrid" return to office policies where employees have to live within 100 miles of the office and be able to come in 1 day a week or 1 day a month depending on team. I've talked with executives in charge of large teams at both companies about this issue and so far it looks like th…

I would love hybrid. Going in a day a week would be great. Enough time to plan things and then get to working on it remotely. Unfortunately my company is going full 100% back in the office citing that's where everyone will be in a couple years.

Re: ‘Great Resignation’ gains steam as return-to-work plans take effect

#297

Post by ryandrake » Wed, Jun 30, 2021, 5:46 PM UTC

fartcannon wrote: post #146

They sent around a form at my work asking everyone what their preference would be. The first guy replied to everyone with his preference: 100% wfh. Since he replied-all, so did everyone else. We got through about 20 employees, all stating their preference as WFH before a manager shut down the reply-all. A week later we got an email saying people wanted 2-3 days in office.

Hilarious! I wonder (not really) if they would have kept the reply-all going if the consensus response was "2-3 days"... Sounds like a case of a survey with only one correct answer.

Re: ‘Great Resignation’ gains steam as return-to-work plans take effect

#298

Post by acituan » Wed, Jun 30, 2021, 5:47 PM UTC

brandmeyer wrote: post #217

acituan wrote: post #123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Without due speculation we could only talk about fully established facts. That would make a very infertile conversation. Also you should have more trust for your fellows in dialogue here, that they do have some immune function against misinformation viruses.

My experience in the software industry is that engineers are just as susceptible to misinformation as everyone else. It is the exact same process which reinforces beliefs in flat-earth, anti-vax, chiropractic, homeopathy, the stolen-election narrative, and other such nonsense. A number of folks are asking the question, "why does the HN consensus appear to be so far away from my experience?" I think the answer is real…

Thanks for your input regarding critical thinking skills. Below are my suggestions for you, inspired from CBT skills. Normally it is a faux pas to point out cognitive distortions in other people's thinking, but looks like you're up for a direct conversation so I'll reciprocate;

- don't read minds; dialectic can only happen if we allow the flow of conversation back and forth. Cutting that flow prematurely happens for example when we assert that we know what the other person is thinking.

- don't use should statements; don't enter the scene with imperatives and normativities. At best it is insulting to fellow adults you're talking to, at worst it again kills the dialectic. Conversation requires trust in the other person being able to unpack and reality test what is being said. It requires an assumption of good enough character. Talking down to people is a self fulfilling prophecy; when you show you have very little expectation in having a good faith conversation you have already created it.

- let go of black and white thinking; simple categories are useful but have serious precision errors. I invite you to consider "truth", "knowledge", "validity" as shades of gray instead of discrete categories while talking to people, because it allows parties of a dialogue to puzzle together the subsets of truths they have.

- don't overgeneralize; don't take a comment and overgeneralize that to a person's essence e.g "they are a person who always does this". Don't take a few comments and overgeneralize that to the entire forum. Don't use labels.

- don't discount the positives and filter in only the negatives; instead of focusing where people might have missed your expectations in critical thinking, see if you're downplaying or outright ignoring when they are in fact demonstrating it.

Hope it helps.

Re: ‘Great Resignation’ gains steam as return-to-work plans take effect

#299

Post by tgragnato » Wed, Jun 30, 2021, 5:48 PM UTC

ItsMonkk wrote: post #175

achow wrote: post #166

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From a single, young: I miss the office for.. - Free and convenient food. - Social chatter & engagement. - Making friends with employees who I don't know and connecting with new employees. - Work life separation (balance). - Proper workstation, climate controlled environment. - Sense of belonging - team outing, after hours beers.. - Intra and inter company sports and games. - Meeting potential dates. [Not me. Just em…

I experienced all of these to a much better degree during college. Are you sure you don't just want to live in a city that provides plenty of shared spaces? Relying on your employer for these items seems unwise.

Dating at work is especially a bad idea.

Things could be perfect, but (with high probability) a relationship will abruptly end and managing every social aspect can be difficult.

Re: ‘Great Resignation’ gains steam as return-to-work plans take effect

#300

Post by hn_throwaway_99 » Wed, Jun 30, 2021, 5:48 PM UTC

taylodl wrote: post #292

ItsMonkk wrote: post #175

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I experienced all of these to a much better degree during college. Are you sure you don't just want to live in a city that provides plenty of shared spaces? Relying on your employer for these items seems unwise.

This. So much this. Young professionals need to learn the difference between friends and colleagues. When working from home it's hard to blur that line. As far as chatter goes, nobody wants that. It's distracting to those around you. When we were at the office we were chatting over IM to cut down on the noise. Guess what? We're still chatting over IM while WFH. Besides, many companies are adopting a hybrid plan anywa…

> As far as chatter goes, nobody wants that.

I interpreted "social chatter and engagement" not necessarily to mean people are yapping at their desk, but that people say hi in the break room, have lunch together, etc.

> Young professionals need to learn the difference between friends and colleagues.

I hear that a lot on HN, and I'm sorry if I have to roll my eyes a little. TONS of humanity make friends at the place where they spend nearly half their waking hours, and there is nothing wrong with that. It's fine that not everyone does, but this "rule" people like to spout about "your co-workers are not your friends" - well, maybe your coworkers are not your friends, but I've made plenty of deep, lasting friendships through work.