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HK media erase their archives amid rising arrests

asiatimes.com

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Re: HK media erase their archives amid rising arrests

#171

Post by throwaway_oil »

jawkx wrote: post #13
wyager wrote: post #5

I lived in HK 2018-2020, leaving around the passage of the “national security law”. I think HK is a perfect case study of a line of fallacious thinking popular among westerners: the idea that peaceful protesting or rule-abiding political opposition is generally effective. This is wrong for at least two reasons. The first mistake is failing to recognize that many governments (case in point) are not nearly as vulnerabl…

Hongkongers are not protesting peacefully lol. They literally burned people that say that they love China. I think it is a perfect case study on how creating chaos (running into parliament building and vandalise), doxxing and threaten the family of police officers and supporting Donald trump (for whatever reason) is not helping.

This account was created yesterday and has only commented in this thread.

Re: HK media erase their archives amid rising arrests

#172

Post by throwaway_oil »

doesthismean wrote: post #98
wyager wrote: post #5

I lived in HK 2018-2020, leaving around the passage of the “national security law”. I think HK is a perfect case study of a line of fallacious thinking popular among westerners: the idea that peaceful protesting or rule-abiding political opposition is generally effective. This is wrong for at least two reasons. The first mistake is failing to recognize that many governments (case in point) are not nearly as vulnerabl…

> ... peaceful protesting... Is setting fires on public transport, damaging roads and buildings, beating up (in some cases almost killing) innocent bystanders "peaceful protesting"? What westerners do not understand is that the 2019 riots in HK are motivated by hatred toward Chinese mainlanders who have risen in wealth in recent decades and to whom HK residents have historically felt superior. A parallel in the West…

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Re: HK media erase their archives amid rising arrests

#173

Post by throwaway_oil »

doesthismean wrote: post #155
GordonS wrote: post #144

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I love HK, and I have friends in HK. What I've heard is very different - most protesting has been peaceful, sometimes turning violent after actions by the police or a few anarchist types on the fringes (and let's be honest, there's a good chance these are often working under instruction of the secure apparatuses). They also vehemently deny any kind of racism against mainlanders - people are against the new security l…

> They also vehemently deny any kind of racism against mainlanders Do racists happily admit that they are racists though?

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Re: HK media erase their archives amid rising arrests

#175

Post by inglor_cz »

dirtyid wrote: post #115
_carbyau_ wrote: post #8

In this article, I was surprised to read that anyone thought "freedom of the press" still existed in HK at all. Once they took the boss of Apple Daily it was pretty clear. HK is governed by one system.

Jimmy Lai + affiliates getting stomped for colluding with foreign forces is long overdue. Zero reason for HK publisher to meet with Pompeo and other US officials. Ditto with other politicians charged with collusion, i.e. those who asked US for sanctions to counter "one country" interests. One thing PRC intelligence is good at is catching spies and crushing foreign influence. The PRC "One System" which always had full…

"Zero reason for HK publisher to meet with Pompeo and other US officials."

That is called freedom of association. You want to meet somebody else, go ahead. You do not have to state your reasons to the intelligence service of your country or explain yourself in a court.

"crushing foreign influence"

If all countries other than China do that do you, you will live in a world totally devoid of friends. What is so bad about foreign influence that it must be crushed?

Re: HK media erase their archives amid rising arrests

#176

Post by starfallg »

mytailorisrich wrote: post #129
skissane wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think eventually something is going to break with the CCP system. But that could easily take another 50 years or more. Something many of us will not live to see. The Chinese government sustains itself in power through economic growth and nationalism. That then leads to the two most likely factors (in my opinion) to lead to its eventual downfall – (i) if economic growth gets replaced by stagnation or even decline; (…

Nationalism is a reaction of Chinese society that predates the CCP. The CCP is a product of it, not the cause. Indeed they know that they have to show achievements in that area because that's what the people want. As a matter of fact that have actually being successful in that regards when the Nationalists had failed. On the world stage the focus is on the CCP and China's political regime because it makes selling ant…

>If tomorrow the whole of China became a democracy very little to nothing of their key policies and aims would change

No idea why you would say that. China's policy focus would immediately change. Domestically it can no longer afford to focus solely on middle/upper-class growth due to the need to appease the majority of the population still living on low wages. The transparency of the decision making would also cause a lot of domestic policies to be revisited. Currently these decisions are made with the public in the dark. That would no longer be acceptable in a democracy.

On foreign policy and the geopolitical front, China will almost certainly pursue a reset with their neighbours. Whether this results in closer cooperation with the west, or continued antagonism remains to be seen. The Chinese military isn't in the same position as the USSR back in the 90s, and China will not inherit the position as the superpower heading the communist regimes. In any case, it will translate to real changes in how China deals with border issues and military expansion in the South China Sea.

Re: HK media erase their archives amid rising arrests

#177

Post by Dah00n »

tjpnz wrote: post #133
akomtu wrote: post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What matters is CCP wants it. The disputed land status will be used as a pretense. The US won't dare to start a war and will write off the loss. Other countries won't even dare to comment on the situation.

The US starts wars all the time. The CCP would have made a grave error in judgement if it thought this would be any different. If the US walked away from Taiwan that puts South Korea, Japan and other allies in SE Asia at risk. Not going to happen.

The US rarely starts wars with anyone who can hurt it. Even a conventional war with China would be extremely different than anything the US has seen since WW2 and in some ways this would be worse. Do you think the modern US has the stomach for multiple sunken aircraft carriers, WW2 or Korean war style casualties, etc. all the while with the US home front without products it cannot live without? It would completely destroy the US as we know it, with a ruined economy and a many decades setback. Not much of a victory compared to the loss of Taiwan.

Re: HK media erase their archives amid rising arrests

#178

Post by inglor_cz »

Bayart wrote: post #131
strogonoff wrote: post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I like the idea floated by an acquaintance of mine, which sounds more or less like “the British could just give us some island they don’t need, and we’d build another city there”.

HK is wealthy because of where it is. Good luck trying to replicate that in the Falklands or on some rock in the Caribbeans.

Geographical influences do exist, but the exceptions are quite significant.

Britain was once considered a backward periphery of Europe. Japan is so geographically peripheral that it could successfully close itself off the rest of the world for 250 years.

On the other hand, there is no Yemeni/Somali equivalent of Singapore even though a lot of the world traffic must pass around them. Gibraltar is rich, but Spanish Andalusia all around it has pretty stagnant economy oriented on tourism. Panama kinda works, but nowhere near as well as, say, California or Florida.

Re: HK media erase their archives amid rising arrests

#179

Post by inglor_cz »

Seattle3503 wrote: post #108
etaioinshrdlu wrote: post #78

If you are in HK and you're able, I'd recommend leaving and bring as much family with you as you can. It's not going to get better there, at this point.

Does it seem weird to anyone else that a foreigner would say this? Surely someone else living there would understand their own situation better.

Looking at memoirs of Central European Jews in the late 1930s, lots of them were unwilling to admit that it won't end with "Jewish only" post office hours. Things like real property weigh you down and lead you to wishful thinking.

We all generally underestimate risks of many types of behavior. For example, sedentary behavior is pretty bad for your health, but how many smart commenters on HN find a reason not to exercise?

Re: HK media erase their archives amid rising arrests

#180

Post by inglor_cz »

akomtu wrote: post #121
robjan wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The government of Taiwan does not report into the Chinese Central Government like in Hong Kong. It's controlled by an independent government on disputed land.

What matters is CCP wants it. The disputed land status will be used as a pretense. The US won't dare to start a war and will write off the loss. Other countries won't even dare to comment on the situation.

"The US won't dare to start a war and will write off the loss."

This kind of thinking gave us the First World War.

If the US stops protecting Taiwan and allows China to take it by force, it can kiss their credibility worldwide goodbye, dismantling its entire network of allies built over decades in one fell swoop.

Not impossible, but world empires do not generally do such things unless they are very, very weakened.

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