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HK media erase their archives amid rising arrests

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Re: HK media erase their archives amid rising arrests

#111

Post by nindalf »

refurb wrote: post #106
nindalf wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This. I don’t know why people found Obama’s position on gay marriage so difficult to understand. It was simple. In 2008, he had to win a Democratic primary. This meant echoing the stances that would be popular with Democratic primary voters. In Obama’s case, he needed all of the black vote as well. Only 60% of Democrats in 2008 supported marriage equality, compared to 80% in 2020 ( https://news.gallup.com/poll/350486…

To be honest that sounds like lying and manipulating the public. Not singling out Obama here because all politicians do it to an extent (the ones who don’t never get far). Just calling out it’s not exactly a virtue.

Lying? Manipulating? What?

Is it wrong for a politician to mirror the opinions of their voters? That’s literally what a representative democracy is supposed to be.

Is it wrong for a person to express their heart felt opinion to folks who like and trust them? Isn’t that what all human communication is?

Obama did the right thing, in both 2008 and 2012. If he does 2008 differently, he remains a Senator with no national platform. If he does 2012 differently and doesn’t use his national platform to advocate for gay rights, maybe it takes longer for it to reach 80% support in the general population.

If you’d like to actually understand politics, I’d suggest reading The Dictators Handbook or watching this video for the tldr- https://youtu.be/rStL7niR7gs

Re: HK media erase their archives amid rising arrests

#112

Post by 2muchcoffeeman »

refurb wrote: post #106
nindalf wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This. I don’t know why people found Obama’s position on gay marriage so difficult to understand. It was simple. In 2008, he had to win a Democratic primary. This meant echoing the stances that would be popular with Democratic primary voters. In Obama’s case, he needed all of the black vote as well. Only 60% of Democrats in 2008 supported marriage equality, compared to 80% in 2020 ( https://news.gallup.com/poll/350486…

To be honest that sounds like lying and manipulating the public. Not singling out Obama here because all politicians do it to an extent (the ones who don’t never get far). Just calling out it’s not exactly a virtue.

How else would you get change in the US (and other western democracies I guess?) Not so long ago politicians were chastised for “flip flopping”. How does one incorporate new information and update their views in such an environment?

Re: HK media erase their archives amid rising arrests

#113

Post by strogonoff »

labster wrote: post #39
seibelj wrote: post #3

There is an epic tv show to be made about underground freedom fighters in HK and what they do to subvert the gestapo. Just like there is a genre now of how different groups tried to subvert the nazis, it’s pretty clear that China is the modern-day fascist state, where disagreeing with the official party line risks your career and possibly your freedom. The only permitted disagreement is whisper-networks, and the mome…

Disney won’t even make gay characters in their animated films, so they can make lots of China dollars. So good luck finding funding for your TV show to deeply hurt the feelings of the Chinese people.

Apple TV+ is claimed to have a policy to never do two things: hardcore nudity, and China.

Report[0] by CBS gives hope that the industry is waking up. HBO announced a series about COVID in which they claim to not go soft on anyone, including the Chinese government.

However, even presuming there is a channel that would be willing to air or stream the show, a series about HK freedom fight would be very hard to shoot in a realistic fashion. If it is to be released while the fight is ongoing, exposing actual people or even techniques that CCP doesn’t know about could very tangibly cost lives. Tangentially, such a show would give more ammunition for CCP’s propaganda that it’s the interference of the West that is causing the unrest (as opposed to Hongkongers themselves wanting freedom). The only way to shoot on location while the events are unfolding is if there’s solid trust between the participants and the crew that release will not happen in a way that would put individual fighters or the movement in even more of a jeopardy than there’s already. A mere contract is unlikely to be enough of a guarantee, given who they’re dealing with.

There is a film about HK protests (banned in China, of course), but it mostly concerned itself with what was happening visibly on the streets.

[0] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TgeRQkE3ED0

Re: HK media erase their archives amid rising arrests

#114

Post by strogonoff »

nine_k wrote: post #83

The most interesting idea I heard about the hand-over of HK is that UK should have offered a UK permanent resident (or even a citizen) status to all HK residents, once China started the pressure. Of course, HK's population is 11% of UK, not a small deal, likely such a bill won't pass anyway. But I also see it as a missed opportunity to bring in some world-class human capital.

I like the idea floated by an acquaintance of mine, which sounds more or less like “the British could just give us some island they don’t need, and we’d build another city there”.

Re: HK media erase their archives amid rising arrests

#115

Post by dirtyid »

_carbyau_ wrote: post #8

In this article, I was surprised to read that anyone thought "freedom of the press" still existed in HK at all. Once they took the boss of Apple Daily it was pretty clear. HK is governed by one system.

Jimmy Lai + affiliates getting stomped for colluding with foreign forces is long overdue. Zero reason for HK publisher to meet with Pompeo and other US officials. Ditto with other politicians charged with collusion, i.e. those who asked US for sanctions to counter "one country" interests. One thing PRC intelligence is good at is catching spies and crushing foreign influence. The PRC "One System" which always had full authority over foreign policy and enforcing national security. This is 1Country2Systems finally working as intended.

Two systems still exists - major orgs like HK Free Press still publishing as well as TheStrand mentioned in this article. It's merely finally reconciling with the 1country part that was suppose to be principal/take precedence over 2systems, but wasn't due to HK's inability to pass NSL for 20+ years. Have to wait and see how chilling effect recalibrates/normalizes after current phase of crackdown calms, i.e. see if HKFP and co still continues publishing or also get the rope. In which case 2system is truly dead. In the meantime, it's finally 1Country2Systems instead of just 2Systems, which was never tenable.

Re: HK media erase their archives amid rising arrests

#116

Post by fogihujy »

ILMostro7 wrote: post #58
naniwaduni wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Peaceful protests are proven to work more than violence; Are they? Remember, a successful violent "protest" is often just retroactively called by a different name, like "revolution" or "coup d'état", it's not as if they're fundamentally different things. How do you compare those to successful peaceful protests?

Lol How do you go from a protest to a coup d'état?

There was a revolution or two that started as simple protests...

Re: HK media erase their archives amid rising arrests

#117

Post by bosswipe »

wyager wrote: post #5

I lived in HK 2018-2020, leaving around the passage of the “national security law”. I think HK is a perfect case study of a line of fallacious thinking popular among westerners: the idea that peaceful protesting or rule-abiding political opposition is generally effective. This is wrong for at least two reasons. The first mistake is failing to recognize that many governments (case in point) are not nearly as vulnerabl…

Your two points are only true when there is no democracy.

Re: HK media erase their archives amid rising arrests

#118

Post by fogihujy »

dismantlethesun wrote: post #84
guerrilla wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, they are criticizing the UK.

Ah, got it. I had thought they were relying on moral relativism to downplay the actions of the Chinese government.

Narh, the Chinese government's actions are unforgivable. As are the actions of others who did the same thing.

Re: HK media erase their archives amid rising arrests

#119

Post by bosswipe »

vmception wrote: post #32
wyager wrote: post #5

I lived in HK 2018-2020, leaving around the passage of the “national security law”. I think HK is a perfect case study of a line of fallacious thinking popular among westerners: the idea that peaceful protesting or rule-abiding political opposition is generally effective. This is wrong for at least two reasons. The first mistake is failing to recognize that many governments (case in point) are not nearly as vulnerabl…

There is a Cambridge University Press / APSA study about the United States that shows populist swelling or the popular vote rarely results in any legislative change that matches the sentiment, and legislative changes come from well funded special interests that were already there. It is either purely coincidence when those changes match what the protesters want because special interests became interests, or were alre…

Yes, protests are the impotent desperate cry of the unheard. I love of the free because, no matter how much corruption, we will not lose that voice of last resort. Millions of us are willing to fight to the death to preserve it.

Re: HK media erase their archives amid rising arrests

#120

Post by est »

dismantlethesun wrote: post #72
est wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hong Kong’s Police Violence Is Stamped ‘Made in U.K.’ https://foreignpolicy.com/2019/07/18/hong-kongs-police-viole... Bonus: > the techniques were on full display in British police violence against miners during the 1984-1985 strike

Are you implying that the current Chinese government should be forgiven for abusing its citizens because the British did something similar 35 years ago? I don’t mean to offend, but your comment is so short that I can tell what kind of context you are trying to add.

I am implying that the current Chinese government simply kept the colonial style police force, probably unchanged for another 50 years.
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