HK media erase their archives amid rising arrests

Post by ceilingcorner » Wed, Jun 30, 2021, 4:50 AM UTC

rantwasp wrote: post #45

wyager wrote: post #5

I lived in HK 2018-2020, leaving around the passage of the “national security law”. I think HK is a perfect case study of a line of fallacious thinking popular among westerners: the idea that peaceful protesting or rule-abiding political opposition is generally effective. This is wrong for at least two reasons. The first mistake is failing to recognize that many governments (case in point) are not nearly as vulnerabl…

i like the French approach. whenever shit does not work they start building a guillotine: https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6477953/Yellow-Vest... It's a very powerful symbol that if things don't work out violence is on the table and people are going to be held accountable. For those who know a little French history, you know that those French people don't fuck around.

Post by NhanH » Wed, Jun 30, 2021, 4:52 AM UTC

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #14

an_opabinia wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> the idea that peaceful protesting or rule-abiding political opposition is generally effective. I understand you are making a stylized appeal for liberal political change via violence. China's leadership has peaks and troughs of liberalism, and violence there, in the Soviet Union, Venezuela, Afghanistan, Iraq, Syria, Iran and in many other places around the world was followed more often by a hardening, not a softeni…

> Eventually, Xi will die, and it's more likely than not that his successors will liberalize It is more likely there will be a contest for power. It could become violent, though that is unlikely. In that event, I see no reason to ensure like-minded Chinese are sufficiently armed, or at the very least informed. China's path changed when Xi installed himself as dictator for life. It's foolish to ignore that seismic shi…

Post by DistressedDrone » Wed, Jun 30, 2021, 4:55 AM UTC

dillondoyle wrote: post #47

boomboomsubban wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't buy the argument that economic sanctions/boycotts lead to overthrown governments, but I'll assume it does. The result of that strategy would be crippling poverty for hundreds of millions of people, with results likely to last for decades.

On the other hand opening up economically to China didn't bring the Democracy we envisioned either.

Post by 2xpress » Wed, Jun 30, 2021, 4:58 AM UTC

someperson wrote: post #7

The best way to put pressure on the Chinese Communist Party and help pro-democracy voices in Hong Kong (and the reduce Uygher genocide) is to avoid buying Made in China goods where possible. This means buying Western, Korean and Japanese brands that aren't manufactured in China. Eg, a Samsung phone over Apple (made in Vietnam than Made in China), a Western Digital hard drive (made in Thailand) etc. There are an incre…

Post by baybal2 » Wed, Jun 30, 2021, 5:03 AM UTC

ILMostro7 wrote: post #52

npunt wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not actually sure if you polled westerns that they would assume protests alone are the impetus for change, this may be a straw man. A more generous line of thinking would be 'do peaceful protests help bring about change?', which many in the west would probably agree to, and many in HK probably not. And they'd both be right - peaceful protest likely works better in certain contexts (democracies) than others (autho…

How and why do authoritarian regimes get toppled? Ultimately, capturing hearts and minds of people throigh peaceful protests is beneficial. The question is not whether protests always work directly and timely even. Wheteher or not special interests play a role, the result is easier reached when there's at least a larger audience that may become allied or organized better. To me, it's a fallacy to say that on the one…