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HK media erase their archives amid rising arrests

asiatimes.com

41–50 of 346 posts

Re: HK media erase their archives amid rising arrests

#41
post #5

I lived in HK 2018-2020, leaving around the passage of the “national security law”. I think HK is a perfect case study of a line of fallacious thinking popular among westerners: the idea that peaceful protesting or rule-abiding political opposition is generally effective. This is wrong for at least two reasons. The first mistake is failing to recognize that many governments (case in point) are not nearly as vulnerabl…

There is a Cambridge University Press / APSA study about the United States that shows populist swelling or the popular vote rarely results in any legislative change that matches the sentiment, and legislative changes come from well funded special interests that were already there. It is either purely coincidence when those changes match what the protesters want because special interests became interests, or were alre…

cool article. really long I skimmed it so far. seems focused on comparing economic elite/interest groups to common population, which would skew the policy measured to tangible economic/business outcomes?

My first thought to your comment was an opposing example of gay rights. Sure gay marriage was SCOTUS but it first changed as policy at the state level. politicians changed because it became popular enough and strong voice in media (remember obama was against marriage equality amongst other things at first). We're now seeing this struggle with Trans rights. Where it's >52% popular you see equality legislation, where it's a good wedge issue for Republicans they act against (e.g. DeSantis is running for president on the backs of attacking children..)

Civil Rights Act comes to mind too and interesting in that it had such strong opposition, interesting question of what are special interests if you expand beyond 'economic and business elite.' NAACP et al were very powerful.

Marijuana & decriminalization is another quick thought, though that's a bit more cloudy especially with later states with a more established business interest group. But I worked on the original campaign here in CO and our budget was pretty tiny...

Re: HK media erase their archives amid rising arrests

#42
post #19
post #5

I lived in HK 2018-2020, leaving around the passage of the “national security law”. I think HK is a perfect case study of a line of fallacious thinking popular among westerners: the idea that peaceful protesting or rule-abiding political opposition is generally effective. This is wrong for at least two reasons. The first mistake is failing to recognize that many governments (case in point) are not nearly as vulnerabl…

>The first mistake is failing to recognize that many governments (case in point) are not nearly as vulnerable to bad PR, I mean we're talking about the same government on the bad side of the Tank Man photo. I think that's kind of obvious. The difference is in HK I don't think people were anticipating China to completely break the Basic Law and the handover agreement. They were protesting the elected HK government, no…

Not to discount China's horrible authoritarianism in Hong Kong or elsewhere, but the tank man photo is a selective propaganda edit. Watch the whole video (as captured by CNN):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YeFzeNAHEhU

Re: HK media erase their archives amid rising arrests

#43
post #5

I lived in HK 2018-2020, leaving around the passage of the “national security law”. I think HK is a perfect case study of a line of fallacious thinking popular among westerners: the idea that peaceful protesting or rule-abiding political opposition is generally effective. This is wrong for at least two reasons. The first mistake is failing to recognize that many governments (case in point) are not nearly as vulnerabl…

There is a Cambridge University Press / APSA study about the United States that shows populist swelling or the popular vote rarely results in any legislative change that matches the sentiment, and legislative changes come from well funded special interests that were already there. It is either purely coincidence when those changes match what the protesters want because special interests became interests, or were alre…

[deleted]

Re: HK media erase their archives amid rising arrests

#44

The best way to put pressure on the Chinese Communist Party and help pro-democracy voices in Hong Kong (and the reduce Uygher genocide) is to avoid buying Made in China goods where possible. This means buying Western, Korean and Japanese brands that aren't manufactured in China. Eg, a Samsung phone over Apple (made in Vietnam than Made in China), a Western Digital hard drive (made in Thailand) etc. There are an incre…

I don't buy the argument that economic sanctions/boycotts lead to overthrown governments, but I'll assume it does. The result of that strategy would be crippling poverty for hundreds of millions of people, with results likely to last for decades.

[flagged]

Re: HK media erase their archives amid rising arrests

#45
post #5

I lived in HK 2018-2020, leaving around the passage of the “national security law”. I think HK is a perfect case study of a line of fallacious thinking popular among westerners: the idea that peaceful protesting or rule-abiding political opposition is generally effective. This is wrong for at least two reasons. The first mistake is failing to recognize that many governments (case in point) are not nearly as vulnerabl…

i like the French approach. whenever shit does not work they start building a guillotine: https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6477953/Yellow-Vest...

It's a very powerful symbol that if things don't work out violence is on the table and people are going to be held accountable. For those who know a little French history, you know that those French people don't fuck around.

Re: HK media erase their archives amid rising arrests

#46
post #19
post #5

I lived in HK 2018-2020, leaving around the passage of the “national security law”. I think HK is a perfect case study of a line of fallacious thinking popular among westerners: the idea that peaceful protesting or rule-abiding political opposition is generally effective. This is wrong for at least two reasons. The first mistake is failing to recognize that many governments (case in point) are not nearly as vulnerabl…

>The first mistake is failing to recognize that many governments (case in point) are not nearly as vulnerable to bad PR, I mean we're talking about the same government on the bad side of the Tank Man photo. I think that's kind of obvious. The difference is in HK I don't think people were anticipating China to completely break the Basic Law and the handover agreement. They were protesting the elected HK government, no…

But its also not nothing, otherwise they wouldn't be so sensitive on the subject.

Re: HK media erase their archives amid rising arrests

#47

The best way to put pressure on the Chinese Communist Party and help pro-democracy voices in Hong Kong (and the reduce Uygher genocide) is to avoid buying Made in China goods where possible. This means buying Western, Korean and Japanese brands that aren't manufactured in China. Eg, a Samsung phone over Apple (made in Vietnam than Made in China), a Western Digital hard drive (made in Thailand) etc. There are an incre…

I don't buy the argument that economic sanctions/boycotts lead to overthrown governments, but I'll assume it does. The result of that strategy would be crippling poverty for hundreds of millions of people, with results likely to last for decades.

On the other hand opening up economically to China didn't bring the Democracy we envisioned either.

Re: HK media erase their archives amid rising arrests

#48
post #5

I lived in HK 2018-2020, leaving around the passage of the “national security law”. I think HK is a perfect case study of a line of fallacious thinking popular among westerners: the idea that peaceful protesting or rule-abiding political opposition is generally effective. This is wrong for at least two reasons. The first mistake is failing to recognize that many governments (case in point) are not nearly as vulnerabl…

> I think HK is a perfect case study of a line of fallacious thinking popular among westerners: the idea that peaceful protesting or rule-abiding political opposition is generally effective. It's not fallacious. It has worked in the past and continue to work even to this day. Peaceful protests are proven to work more than violence; when they are allowed in the first place. Violet uprisings rarely lead to positive cha…

> Peaceful protests are proven to work more than violence;

Are they? Remember, a successful violent "protest" is often just retroactively called by a different name, like "revolution" or "coup d'état", it's not as if they're fundamentally different things. How do you compare those to successful peaceful protests?

Re: HK media erase their archives amid rising arrests

#49
post #39
post #3

There is an epic tv show to be made about underground freedom fighters in HK and what they do to subvert the gestapo. Just like there is a genre now of how different groups tried to subvert the nazis, it’s pretty clear that China is the modern-day fascist state, where disagreeing with the official party line risks your career and possibly your freedom. The only permitted disagreement is whisper-networks, and the mome…

Disney won’t even make gay characters in their animated films, so they can make lots of China dollars. So good luck finding funding for your TV show to deeply hurt the feelings of the Chinese people.

I'm thinking in terms of 50+ years. The optimist in me thinks freedom-oriented people will win - eventually. But historically speaking the US is an anomaly, and the older I get the more impressed I am that people in the 1700's wrote the US constitution, considering every few decades serious threats to its core ideals erupt but are ultimately quashed.

What's even more crazy is 2 years ago saying the comment I did about China would have made me worried about my tech career in America. But now, people who previously supported and defended China need to back-pedal lest they are called out for supporting human rights abuses in the name of profit. It reinforces my belief that you should have principles that you stick with in all situations.

Re: HK media erase their archives amid rising arrests

#50
post #39
post #3

There is an epic tv show to be made about underground freedom fighters in HK and what they do to subvert the gestapo. Just like there is a genre now of how different groups tried to subvert the nazis, it’s pretty clear that China is the modern-day fascist state, where disagreeing with the official party line risks your career and possibly your freedom. The only permitted disagreement is whisper-networks, and the mome…

Disney won’t even make gay characters in their animated films, so they can make lots of China dollars. So good luck finding funding for your TV show to deeply hurt the feelings of the Chinese people.

Disney+ also got rid of Love Victor. now on Hulu we get at least some semblance of normative sexuality of queer people.

though your comment sounds more like a threat, maybe just the standard CCP tinged thread though lol

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