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GitHub Copilot

copilot.github.com

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Re: GitHub Copilot

#841
i’m sort of a Luddite so take this with a grain of salt.

I don’t see this going anywhere.

If it’s really good and we can actually have 1 developer instead of 2 now why would any developer want to do this? this would basically be a piece of automation that diminishes the value we are creating.

If it’s crap it’s going to create mountains of verbosity and code written to pump up the LOC numbers. It’s terrible. After that you’re gonna end up maintaining and enhancing what an “ai” spew out.

I’m not buying the argument this is a problem that needs solving. It’s in the same vein with self driving cars. It looks impressive, it’s good PR, it’s absolutely insanely hard to get right and the benefits (even if we get it right) are questionable.

the way it was introduced is also disingenuous.

Re: GitHub Copilot

#842
post #639

Earlier quoted context omitted.

the main argument against Copilot for me. it takes longer to grok existing code than just write it from ground up.

Is that your main argument against Stack Overflow? Because for some percentage of people the use cases will be similar (that is, learning some quick ways to do something that they can then explore and learn about). Sometimes resources like these are used as references and the solution is used as is. Sometimes they are used as a survey, and it's more like asking a librarian "I want to learn more about how to X" and ha…

When one gets snippets from Stack Overflow, he/she doesn't assume it is tailored specifically for the task, so extra check, modification are applied. With copilot people (eventually, especially beginners probably) will assume that the code produced by "magic" AI does exactly what they asked for.

Re: GitHub Copilot

#843

I worry about auto-complete on a more philosophical level. I’ve noticed with gmail that it’ll often suggest it’s way of either replying to an email or completing a sentence even though I’d never actually use those words in that situation, simply because it’s easier. It’s a pretty bad feedback loop that robs us of our independent thought by way of falling victim to laziness, a fundamental human weakness. You can imagi…

Email is a just such a communication medium. It requires both prose at length, and also quick response. Even though the type of information passed around is usually binary: OK/NOT OK, or a status update.

Gmail offers a way to reduce the "prose at length" to a few buttons. And it adds the pleasantries for you.

You can think of it as a workflow automation tool. Your email chains are tickets and you're moving them through different statuses.

Notwithstanding, personal/intimate email is different and spending time writing a beautiful letter is a thing of its own.

Re: GitHub Copilot

#844

I'm amazed to see how positive the overall response is to this idea. Almost as if programmers think that writing programs is the worst part of the job and ready to be automated away. As someone more aligned with the Dijkstra perspective, this seems to me like one of the single worst ideas I've ever seen in this domain. We already have IDEs and other tools leading to an increase in boilerplate and the acceptance of it…

In the (now not very) long run, programming was a job meant for computers, anyway. The future will look back at "programming" the way we now look at Charles Dickens characters toiling in soot-filled factories. It's not what people are best at, and it looks like soon there will be better ways to accomplish this job.

I don’t know if I agree with this, but I think it depends what you mean when you say “programming”.

I use programming as one of the examples of intrinsically human work.

You have a (general computing) machine that can do anything(), it only has meaning and utility from humans thinking about problems they have and how to solve them.

The hard part of programming is analysing what problems you have, and what you want to do about them.

This is why one of the distinguishing features between junior and senior programmers is that seniors tend to think about the (human) problem they’re solving a lot more.

Tools like copilot help with the physical interfacing between programmer and machine, but they don’t eliminate programming.

But a recurring worry people are expressing in this thread is: some people think they _do_, and how insidious that idea is.

The tool is great, the managers deciding that time spent thinking about its output, or developing their staff’s skills, is a waste because “just use what the AI says”, are the danger.

As long as people and computers exist, there will be programming.

not actually “anything”

Re: GitHub Copilot

#845
Is anyone aware of the implications this will make for developers who might want to try software like this, but be under an NDA?

Currently consulting for a bank who takes their security very seriously. Would there be extra hurdles here to make sure there's no calls or requests being made using our data?

Re: GitHub Copilot

#846
I had visions of writing tests and then the AI would do the production code. I think that would be a lot better. Comments are too hard to get right. Good Luck!

Re: GitHub Copilot

#847
post #688

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The landing page for it states the below, so hopefully not too much of an issue (though I guess some folks may find a 0.1% risk high). > GitHub Copilot is a code synthesizer, not a search engine: the vast majority of the code that it suggests is uniquely generated and has never been seen before. We found that about 0.1% of the time, the suggestion may contain some snippets that are verbatim from the training set.

Automatic refactoring could be useful for avoiding a lot of dumb legal disputes. I say dumb because I am, perhaps chauvinistically, assuming that no brilliant algorithmic insights will be transferred via the AI copilot, only work that might have been conceptually hard to a beginner but feels routine to a day laborer. Then again that assumption suggests there'd be nothing to sue over.

True, but that definitely wouldn't stop Oracle from suing over it anyway. (See the rangeCheck chapter of Oracle v Google [0])

Also, Oracle v Google opens the possibility of a fair-use defense in the event that Copilot does regurgitate a small snippet of code.

[0] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11722514

Re: GitHub Copilot

#848
I don't understand how code ownership will work. The application is "trained on ... source code from publicly available sources", but "code you write with its help, belong to you". I get that most code it generates appears to be unique, but they admit that fragments of verbatim code occasionally appear. Unless the code they are using is all BSD-licensed, surely this breaches those licences?

Re: GitHub Copilot

#849

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have been using the Alpha for two weeks as well. I'm impressed by how GitHub Copilot appears to know exactly what I want to type. Not often it even suggests code I was going to peek, such as a snippet to a context menu or completing an array with all Romanian postcodes. Copilot is particularly helpful when working on Angular components where it makes mesmerising predictions. I see technology like Copilot becoming a…

Is this a joke? Top 3 comments follow almost an identical format?

[deleted]

Re: GitHub Copilot

#850
I'm not worried about programs like Copilot, in the same way that I'm not worried about outsourcing. If price was the sole factor in software engineering then all jobs would have already been shipped overseas. Instead, an awful lot of companies tried that, and realized that it's far from the bees knees.

AI tools like this will be force multipliers, the same way that IDEs are. SWEs 20 years ago decried the rise of the IDE the same way that some are moaning about this. "It'll lead to a generation of know-nothing programmers." Instead, SWEs are more productive today than they ever have been before.

Software engineers should welcome the day that an AI makes it possible to describe what you want instead of telling the machine exactly what to do. That's where I see this technology going in 20 years. That said, it will likely never be good enough to replace an engineer completely because the value of an engineer is in deciding what to build and how to build it. Not in determining exactly which lines of code to write. SWE will be more enjoyable as a field in 20 years because we won't have to wrangle compilers, or deal with fundamental limitations of how computers express ideas versus how humans express concepts. Instead, we'll let the AI translate for us and deal with all those problems automatically.

In the short term, I see lots of potential for this technology to make something like the ultimate cross-compiler. If you can take someone's code, convert it to some kind of universal representation (embedding), and then convert that to another language (and get working code that verifiably produces the same results) you would make a ton of money.

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