The author expanded his original essay into a book:
http://www.amazon.com/There-Anything-Good-About-Men/dp/01953...
Is There Anything Good About Men?
31–40 of 237 posts
Re: Is There Anything Good About Men?
#32The problem with this essay is that is paints us as slaves to our genes. Since Dawkins became fashionable, it is now normal to portray human beings as nothing more than meat-based mechanisms for storing and transporting DNA. This idea is dangerously embedded in society now, and it risks creating a self-fulfilling prophecy of barbarism. What possible motivation does one have for behaving in a manner other than that of…
All heritable behaviors that lead to men or women not reproducing don't stay in a population very long. It's not so much slave to genes as it's a boundary condition.
That doesn't take away from your daily experience as a human. You can still do whatever you want, day to day, year to year, not giving much thought of your genetic viability and still be a happy, healthy human being.
Just because you know how a rainbow works doesn't take away from your visceral human experience of one. (double rainbow!) In fact, I'd argue that knowing how a rainbow actually works adds to your appreciation of one.
Re: Is There Anything Good About Men?
#33Obvious problem: Genghis Khan is dead. The fact that a full third of Asia and consequently a sixth of the whole world has some genetic similarity to Genghis Khan does not make him any less dead. Evolution is not teleological and genes do not "want". Genes just happen; they're chemicals. Working to ensure the continuation of your genes is not mandated or valuable -- it is likely . Your parents probably did, because yo…
Some good points, but the parts about the British Empire are off. I'd strongly recommend "Heaven's Command: An Imperial Progress" by Jan Morris for a piece that looks at all the good and bad that the British Empire did under Victoria. To make a long story really short, the British did ridiculous amounts of good in their colonies. For instance, eliminating the Thugee strangling cult: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thugg…
This wikipedia entry only very briefly touches on some of it: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boer_Wars#Controversy_and_signi...
But saying only that To make a long story really short, the British did ridiculous amounts of good in their colonies. is VERY simplistic. No sentence describing the British empire should start with "To make a long story short".
Re: Is There Anything Good About Men?
#34Obvious problem: Genghis Khan is dead. The fact that a full third of Asia and consequently a sixth of the whole world has some genetic similarity to Genghis Khan does not make him any less dead. Evolution is not teleological and genes do not "want". Genes just happen; they're chemicals. Working to ensure the continuation of your genes is not mandated or valuable -- it is likely . Your parents probably did, because yo…
I'm not sure where you disagree with the posted article: "Evolution is not teleological and genes do not "want". Genes just happen; they're chemicals. Working to ensure the continuation of your genes is not mandated or valuable -- it is likely. This doesn't conflict with the article at all. The article never claims that humans have an ethical mandate to ensure the continuation of your genes. Furthermore your statemen…
>About the closest I could find is that cultures who disproportionately use their men for high-risk roles are more successful than those who do not; but I don't see how this differentiated the British from the Mongols.
Oh, they both did -- no question about that -- but the Mongols did it a whole damn lot more, i.e. warrior society as opposed to civil society, and were arguably less successful, long term.
Re: Is There Anything Good About Men?
#35Obvious problem: Genghis Khan is dead. The fact that a full third of Asia and consequently a sixth of the whole world has some genetic similarity to Genghis Khan does not make him any less dead. Evolution is not teleological and genes do not "want". Genes just happen; they're chemicals. Working to ensure the continuation of your genes is not mandated or valuable -- it is likely . Your parents probably did, because yo…
So what if the Mongol empire lasted only 100 years and left Asia in ruins? It was pretty good for Genghis Khan's genes if a sixth of the world is related to him.
You're fundamentally not thinking about genes and evolution the right way. It's not an individual thing. Genghis Khan probably didn't care how many children he had. But in an evolutionary sense, his genes were extremely successful.
Genes "wanting" things is simply a figure of speech to make the whole thing more understandable in colloquial language. They of course do not have desires, but because of the way the system works it makes things clearer to think of them as if they did have an agenda.
Re: Is There Anything Good About Men?
#36Obvious problem: Genghis Khan is dead. The fact that a full third of Asia and consequently a sixth of the whole world has some genetic similarity to Genghis Khan does not make him any less dead. Evolution is not teleological and genes do not "want". Genes just happen; they're chemicals. Working to ensure the continuation of your genes is not mandated or valuable -- it is likely . Your parents probably did, because yo…
Gandhi was a pacifist, but what he did wasn't exactly peaceful.
I think you're missing the larger point by focusing on specifics and minutiae.
Re: Is There Anything Good About Men?
#37What I dislike about these kinds of "evolutionary" arguments is that they tend to assume that the differences between the genders are genetic, even when there's no evidence for that. Even as late as the Victorian ages, several of the traits we now think of as immutable part of being male or female were swapped around. For the Victorians, blue was for girls and pink was for boys, and all women had the potential to bec…
Did you read the article? The author gives several examples that completely counter your underlying argument.
It isn't about ability, it's about motivation.
Re: Is There Anything Good About Men?
#38The problem with this essay is that is paints us as slaves to our genes. Since Dawkins became fashionable, it is now normal to portray human beings as nothing more than meat-based mechanisms for storing and transporting DNA. This idea is dangerously embedded in society now, and it risks creating a self-fulfilling prophecy of barbarism. What possible motivation does one have for behaving in a manner other than that of…
If genes do determine the bulk of our behavior, do you think it's worthwhile to fight against it?
Re: Is There Anything Good About Men?
#39Earlier quoted context omitted.
Some good points, but the parts about the British Empire are off. I'd strongly recommend "Heaven's Command: An Imperial Progress" by Jan Morris for a piece that looks at all the good and bad that the British Empire did under Victoria. To make a long story really short, the British did ridiculous amounts of good in their colonies. For instance, eliminating the Thugee strangling cult: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thugg…
This wikipedia entry only very briefly touches on some of it: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boer_Wars#Controversy_and_signi... But saying only that To make a long story really short, the British did ridiculous amounts of good in their colonies. is VERY simplistic. No sentence describing the British empire should start with "To make a long story short".
> To make a long story really short, the British did ridiculous amounts of good in their colonies. is VERY simplistic.
No, it's not. By pretty much any reasonable metric, the British Empire has contributed more net good to humanity than any other nation in history.
Plenty of bad, too. But overwhelmingly more good than bad. Much of the good is taken for granted until you realize all the mess they cleaned up that isn't talked about. In a number of their African wars, they were destroying cities that had altars of human sacrifice where the blood was made to keep wet - constant non-stop human sacrifice. I forget the chief's name and Wikipedia isn't helping me, but he claimed credit for over 180,000 sacrifices before losing to the Empire.
The Boers are interesting. I kind of sympathize with them a little philosophically as rough individualists, but they were nasty motherfuckers as well. Brutal slavedrivers and merciless during ambushes in wartime. Again, I've actually got quite a bit of admiration of their good points and they were tough as nails, but they could really be sick bastards sometimes. (I think most of their modern descendants would say that's a fair description, and might even smile at it.)
This is before even getting into all the science, culture, law, engineering, infrastructure, and technology that British culture fostered. Yes, they did more net good than anywhere else in history. That's not even a particularly bold statement to make.
Re: Is There Anything Good About Men?
#40I had no idea that the dominant view today was that women are better than men. It is my view and I haven't dissected all the reasons why I think that, but a lot of it comes from seeing so many men at the bottom. Biology wasn't kind to a huge percentage of men.
I do find it true that men seem to try harder to be different, to entertain, to exceed and to impress. The top is dominated by cocky people and there aren't a lot of cocky women.
Now is that biology or society? I have no idea. Is there a society on the planet where women have to impress men to get any attention? Do lesbians rise higher than straight women because they have to impress other women to stand out?