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Bring back menus, QR codes are terrible

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Re: Bring back menus, QR codes are terrible

#641

Post by whimsicalism »

seanmcdirmid wrote: post #634
whimsicalism wrote: post #564

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, it is helpful to have cell service, both in China and in the United States.

You can get by without cell phone service in the USA. On all my business trips back to the USA while living in China, I didn't have much a problem (free open wifi is pretty common, you can even use Uber pretty easily without a phone number). In China...if someone else can get you a SIM, you'll be OK, or maybe you can get one at the airport in customs (that used to be possible), though they have been cracking down on…

> they have been cracking down on SIMs without ID numbers or resident visas associated with them.

?? I use Google Fi which has agreements with providers in almost every country, I had data as soon as I walked off the plane in China. Alipay was almost as easy to set up, although I understand that until recently it was limited to those with a Chinese bank account.

Re: Bring back menus, QR codes are terrible

#642

Post by amerine »

I had the most amazing experience at Oregon City Brewing with my good friend as my first post-pandemic drink. They had pretty standard paper menus with drink lists, but the QR code popped up a version that let you pick a few AND PAY using Apple Pay, Google Pay, then you got your drinks delivered by the same friendly waitstaff. It was a great experience and no cash or cards exchanged hands. I think more quick serve/bars should be doing this.

Re: Bring back menus, QR codes are terrible

#643

Post by cultofmetatron »

squeaky-clean wrote: post #591
cultofmetatron wrote: post #587

Interesting as my startup is going in the opposite direction. WE've embraced QR codes and trying to make the experience of ordering from a menu even better. Unlike these guys, we're working on software that makes the waiter more efficient. You download the phone app and scan the code that the waiter gives you. From there, you have shared list between you and all your friends at the table from which you can send order…

Wait, you're saying I have to install your app on my phone if I want to view the menu? I find the QR menus annoying, but not a huge deal. But requesting I install an app would get me to ask my group if we could dine somewhere else.

Totally understand the reservation about using the app. In our case, we're hoping the convenience of being able to call the waiter or order directly from the app at your favorite restaurant will earn its place in your phone.

The way we set it up, use of the app is entirely optional. The waiter can still take your orders the old fashioned way. wether they have regular menus as well is up to the restaurant as is the option of everyone paying separately through the app. Our waiter app allows the waiter to take care of everything on his end for those that are opposed enough to downloading another app.

Re: Bring back menus, QR codes are terrible

#644

Post by acituan »

adamdusty wrote: post #635
acituan wrote: post #537

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Even more so: "a crowd of tech workers who generally are trying to pave the way" are professionally engaged in using, critiquing and developing user interfaces. “I don’t like it” is not a critique though. The people you would want to hire could try to answer “here is an imperfect solution, how would you improve it?”

The article gives reasons why it is an imperfect solution.

The point was not about the article but the "crowd of HN".

Re: Bring back menus, QR codes are terrible

#645

Post by alisonatwork »

idiotsecant wrote: post #625
alisonatwork wrote: post #608

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think my comment is a bit centered around the Chinese experience. A lot of smaller Chinese restaurants are just one guy at a wok standing near the entrance and a bunch of stools inside (sometimes also outside). They're commonly a husband and wife team, where the husband cooks and the wife acts as a runner or takes orders when it's too busy to bark what you want at the cook, but sometimes it's just the one person. I…

If QR-code based ordering doesn't decrease the quality of the food (I think everyone agrees it doesn't) why should others have to subsidize your 'personal touch' experience paying higher prices for increased wait staff attention when they may be OK with (and prefer!) impersonal service, which has a built-in lower cost of delivery? It seems to me your focus is less on the quality of the food (provided it means quality…

As I mentioned in my earlier post, this is literally the opposite of my experience. The restaurants where I was made to order by QR code always cost more than the restaurants where I was not. In China, I suspect this is because QR code places tend to be national chains which have some kind of brand name recognition, so people pay more to prove their status.

On top of the increased cost, the food tends to be lower quality, not higher quality, presumably because the ingredients are mass produced and reheated by cooks who don't have any personal reputation at stake if they prepare something poorly. This is exactly what chain restaurants in the west are like, and they tend to be a much worse dining experience than either mom and pop or boutique outfits.

Re: Bring back menus, QR codes are terrible

#646

Post by seanmcdirmid »

whimsicalism wrote: post #641
seanmcdirmid wrote: post #634

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can get by without cell phone service in the USA. On all my business trips back to the USA while living in China, I didn't have much a problem (free open wifi is pretty common, you can even use Uber pretty easily without a phone number). In China...if someone else can get you a SIM, you'll be OK, or maybe you can get one at the airport in customs (that used to be possible), though they have been cracking down on…

> they have been cracking down on SIMs without ID numbers or resident visas associated with them. ?? I use Google Fi which has agreements with providers in almost every country, I had data as soon as I walked off the plane in China. Alipay was almost as easy to set up, although I understand that until recently it was limited to those with a Chinese bank account.

> I use Google Fi which gives has agreements with providers in almost every country, I had data as soon as I walked off the plane in China

That sounds really nice...and a bit surprising considering nothing else Google works in China without a VPN.

So...does it also work as a normal phone with a Chinese number so you can logon to wifi at Starbucks in China?

Re: Bring back menus, QR codes are terrible

#647

Post by seanmcdirmid »

Spivak wrote: post #456
seanmcdirmid wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I find paying via QR code to be much less convenient than NFC that is more popular in the west. Tap and pay is really quick, especially in countries like Australia.

With "App Clips" or "Instant Apps" or whatever you want to call them QR codes for me take the lead again. Get a receipt at the table, open camera, scan, app pops up with receipt, add tip, click click pay, done. Skipping the second waiter trip to swipe all the cards or the awkwardness of bringing out the PoS system to the table is immediately worth it to me.

Ya, I get that. Red Robin has screens/computers/payment kiosks at each table to avoid that problem. They won't use QR codes at sit down restaurants in the states for payments because of tipping, however. Psychologically, you are more likely to tip more if the waiter is directly involved in the billing.

Re: Bring back menus, QR codes are terrible

#648

Post by mcguire »

_Nat_ wrote: post #584
alisonatwork wrote: post #464

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This process was one of my most hated "innovations" in food ordering in China. It turns every restaurant into a production line fast food operation, exactly like American chain restaurants. At that point, why even bother going to a restaurant at all? Might as well just order a Sysco-equivalent microwave meal at the supermarket or 7/11, because the flavor and the service will be exactly the same. For me the best resta…

Most ordering-apps I've tried allow customers to customize items and make special-requests. It's often easier to do these things on an app, and these modifications are automatically reflected on the receipt. I guess an app could give people access to a webcam to engage in discussion with a cook as they prepare the food, for people who really want to watch the process and talk to the cook.. is that a feature you'd be…

"I guess an app could give people access to a webcam to engage in discussion with a cook as they prepare the food..."

headdesk

Re: Bring back menus, QR codes are terrible

#649

Post by whimsicalism »

seanmcdirmid wrote: post #646
whimsicalism wrote: post #641

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> they have been cracking down on SIMs without ID numbers or resident visas associated with them. ?? I use Google Fi which has agreements with providers in almost every country, I had data as soon as I walked off the plane in China. Alipay was almost as easy to set up, although I understand that until recently it was limited to those with a Chinese bank account.

> I use Google Fi which gives has agreements with providers in almost every country, I had data as soon as I walked off the plane in China That sounds really nice...and a bit surprising considering nothing else Google works in China without a VPN. So...does it also work as a normal phone with a Chinese number so you can logon to wifi at Starbucks in China?

> a bit surprising considering nothing else Google works in China without a VPN.

It is a bit surprising, although Google does have offices in China. It also has a VPN built in, which I recall would intermittently bypass the GFW.

> So...does it also work as a normal phone with a Chinese number so you can logon to wifi at Starbucks in China?

No, I don't think so, but I had unlimited data.

Re: Bring back menus, QR codes are terrible

#650

Post by acituan »

fouric wrote: post #470
infecto wrote: post #417

It's really interesting to see how a crowd of tech workers who generally are trying to pave the way are so quick to attack and be negative. Like all things in life, when its implemented well it works and when it does not it is terrible. I still think there is room for this to be the future though. I say this as a westerner but perhaps the west is not ready for it yet but I really enjoyed the experience of using QR co…

> It's really interesting to see how a crowd of tech workers who generally are trying to pave the way are so quick to attack and be negative. This statement is utterly useless. It provides no value to the discussion, doesn't make any interesting points, and tries to emotionally manipulate the reader. > Like all things in life, when its implemented well it works and when it does not it is terrible. HN readers seem to…

> > It's really interesting to see how a crowd of tech workers who generally are trying to pave the way are so quick to attack and be negative. > This statement is utterly useless. It provides no value to the discussion, doesn't make any interesting points, and tries to emotionally manipulate the reader.

Funny enough this applies more to your statement than the statement you're responding to. They were making a meta-critique of the general discussion here, and I find it to be a legitimate perspective.

Personal sentiments on liking or not liking QR codes, which any lay user can make, does not make as interesting a discussion as a principled approach to what components of the UX flow exactly fails, whether these failures are essential to QR codes or specific to the implementations today, and how/if they could be addressed as an engineering exercise.

It is akin to saying "this first gen ICE automobiles suck, bring back horses" and go on to discuss the annoying doors of the car while the unexploited fertile land of discussions await on the actual engine, cost benefit analyses, incremental improvements, adoption barriers, UX flows etc.

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