Bring back menus, QR codes are terrible • Hacker News Board

Re: Bring back menus, QR codes are terrible

#581

Post by drdeadringer » Tue, Jun 29, 2021, 5:30 PM UTC

> One of my family members is in his late 70s, loves dining out, and only owns a flip phone with no internet connectivity. He’s already excluded from much of our increasingly digital society;

I remember reading a Sci-Fi short story where the main character was digitally excluded; I forget if this was a criminal sentence or a matter of "backwards living" [no offence to Amish and similar]. I remember a scene where the main character had to interface with a digital menu type of terminal and he couldn't -- either because of ignorance or legal incapability. A child noticed and offered to help him out.

For about 15 years I had a flip phone, well into the "everyone has a smart phone now" age. I felt the limitations of no internet, no QR, no this, no that. Phone calls and texts only.

I switched after I lost my phone at ... get this ... a Sci-Fi convention. And I waited a year between loss and re-acquiring//upgrading. Yes I got the "You don't have a cell phone?!?" shaming, just as I did the Gibbs flip-phone shaming beforehand. Nowadays I "pass" like normal.

Rambling Point Being: This QR Code Menu deal going on... I've encountered it, I don't like it either, I've been able to deal with it only because I lost and replaced a cell phone.

One physical menu please. Thank you. Sorry for being an cartoon alien crab and here I am.

Re: Bring back menus, QR codes are terrible

#582

Post by blindmute » Tue, Jun 29, 2021, 5:32 PM UTC

bruce343434 wrote: post #546

blindmute wrote: post #418

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If people liked that sort of thing it would have been the business model before it was forced to be. The restaurants have declined in quality. Sometimes this is their fault, and sometimes it isn't. Either way, no restaurant is entitled to customers. A lot of places near me have decided that masks are still required, despite the state saying they aren't. In response, I have decided not to eat there. There's no entitle…

How can you eat with a mask on? Or are you referring tot non-restaurant places?

They require a mask at the door and at any time when not seated. Some places even require you to put the mask back on when the waiter comes to the table. It's all just theater, and I won't be a part of it.

Re: Bring back menus, QR codes are terrible

#583

Post by alisonatwork » Tue, Jun 29, 2021, 5:32 PM UTC

p_j_w wrote: post #550

alisonatwork wrote: post #464

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This process was one of my most hated "innovations" in food ordering in China. It turns every restaurant into a production line fast food operation, exactly like American chain restaurants. At that point, why even bother going to a restaurant at all? Might as well just order a Sysco-equivalent microwave meal at the supermarket or 7/11, because the flavor and the service will be exactly the same. For me the best resta…

>This process was one of my most hated "innovations" in food ordering in China. It turns every restaurant into a production line fast food operation, exactly like American chain restaurants. At that point, why even bother going to a restaurant at all? Might as well just order a Sysco-equivalent microwave meal at the supermarket or 7/11, because the flavor and the service will be exactly the same. I usually can't stan…

My comment wasn't very clear. What I was getting at - and perhaps this is a China-specific issue - is that the QR code style restaurants are imo a symptom of gentrification and are contributing to the "blandification" of local cuisines.

In China restaurants can go under very quickly - you might see at a certain location two or three different restaurants in a year. The mom and pop operations tend to be eaten up by the national chain restaurants and "hip" (i.e. QR code ordering) franchises, and when one of these restaurants moves in then not only does the food quality go down, but the prices go up too. I think a lot of young Chinese techies like the change because it seems more clean or more hygienic or more futuristic, but if you just want to sit down and get some local food made by a local person, that experience is harder and harder to find.

Re: Bring back menus, QR codes are terrible

#584

Post by _Nat_ » Tue, Jun 29, 2021, 5:33 PM UTC

alisonatwork wrote: post #464

infecto wrote: post #417

It's really interesting to see how a crowd of tech workers who generally are trying to pave the way are so quick to attack and be negative. Like all things in life, when its implemented well it works and when it does not it is terrible. I still think there is room for this to be the future though. I say this as a westerner but perhaps the west is not ready for it yet but I really enjoyed the experience of using QR co…

This process was one of my most hated "innovations" in food ordering in China. It turns every restaurant into a production line fast food operation, exactly like American chain restaurants. At that point, why even bother going to a restaurant at all? Might as well just order a Sysco-equivalent microwave meal at the supermarket or 7/11, because the flavor and the service will be exactly the same. For me the best resta…

Most ordering-apps I've tried allow customers to customize items and make special-requests. It's often easier to do these things on an app, and these modifications are automatically reflected on the receipt.

I guess an app could give people access to a webcam to engage in discussion with a cook as they prepare the food, for people who really want to watch the process and talk to the cook.. is that a feature you'd be interested in?

I mean, obviously, that wouldn't be right for a lot of places -- many eateries don't want people bothering the kitchen staff -- but if you've been going to places where people can interact with the kitchen-staff as they work, and if that's something the customers value, it'd seem like that process could be made more available.

Edit: Actually, when you were talking about engaging kitchen-staff, were you thinking of places like Subway? Or did you mean actually talking to people in a separate-kitchen, like you walk back there and chat with them while they make the food?

Re: Bring back menus, QR codes are terrible

#585

Post by qazxcvbnmlp » Tue, Jun 29, 2021, 5:36 PM UTC

conductr wrote: post #422

resonious wrote: post #349

Earlier quoted context omitted.

On the general topic of "technology in restaurants", I've noticed an increasing number of restaurants where the waitstaff uses phones/tablets with some kind of specialized app. This happens often: we start telling them our order, and they have to say "wait a sec.... (taps phone for several seconds) okay what was that?". The "UX" as a patron is pretty bad compared to the waitstaff just whipping out a notepad and scrib…

My biggest cheapskate-old-man gripe is how the UX as you said is systemically deteriorating in restaurants yet the tip expectations have creeped up from 15% standard to now 25% default. And, all apps that compute tip % or recommended tip amounts tip on top of tax, which really irks me as just a dark pattern to rip off patrons and inflate the tip amount. This is US tipping culture at absolute worse. I hold at 15% stan…

Yep - and now the waitstaff will gossip about you behind your back, give you bad service and thing you’re grumpy old man.

You thought you were dissenting, but it mostly just reflects poorly on you.

Source - brother is a server.

Re: Bring back menus, QR codes are terrible

#586

Post by conductr » Tue, Jun 29, 2021, 5:37 PM UTC

chihuahua wrote: post #547

conductr wrote: post #501

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Why not just bring cash to tip? Or call the restaurant and talk to the manager? We're talking patron UX here and point is I don't what to shoulder the burden. I didn't even want to calculate 15% tip in my head and you want me to start carrying cash everywhere, something I haven't done since Y2K was a concern. Spend 15 minutes waiting for the manager to come over? No thanks. > Not tipping doesn't accomplish anything…

Not only does the "recommended" tipping amount keep going up, but in a lot of discussions there's the additional bullshit of waiters saying "Well 25% is the bare minimum, (if you're a total jerk), but if you tip 35% we'll really take care of you!" To me, a waiter provides no value at all. I'd rather order at a counter and pick up the food myself. Then I don't have someone asking me "how is everything" when my mouth i…

Yes. The discussions I've seen from waiter expectations like you mention is what has soured me the most on tipping.

Also, I don't feel like my check size is very related to the amount of work involved. At least in my 95% use case of 2-4 people. The waiter does the same thing, checks in on us just as much, still juggling 5-10 other tables. I'm there for an hour. I just don't see $15-30 of value in the service I got during my interaction (my typical check size is $50-100), that's where I land back on my 15% standard. I don't always see that value either, but it's what helps me sleep at night.

If I'm with 5+ people or stay longer than an hour or am eating at a higher priced place where waiter is probably serving fewer tables simultaneously then I adjust accordingly.

Another irk of mine is how alcohol falls into this equation. If I buy a $50 bottle of wine I'm supposed to give $10 tip when usually all they do is open the bottle? My rule is a dollar per serving. It's probably outdated rule and needs some adjustment for inflation as that's been my rule for a long time.

Re: Bring back menus, QR codes are terrible

#587

Post by cultofmetatron » Tue, Jun 29, 2021, 5:37 PM UTC

Interesting as my startup is going in the opposite direction. WE've embraced QR codes and trying to make the experience of ordering from a menu even better.

Unlike these guys, we're working on software that makes the waiter more efficient. You download the phone app and scan the code that the waiter gives you. From there, you have shared list between you and all your friends at the table from which you can send orders directly to the waiter from the app. The customers can hail the waiter and we plan to add direct messaging as well in the future.

We've noticed that while some people enthusiastically love the system, its a 50/50 split between those who prefer paying from in our app and those that pay the waiter directly the old fashioned way.

We're currently in a few select high profile restaurants in London and hoping to expand soon.

Re: Bring back menus, QR codes are terrible

#588

Post by kerkeslager » Tue, Jun 29, 2021, 5:42 PM UTC

giarc wrote: post #566

kerkeslager wrote: post #486

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Videos of meals? Better upsells? Are you trying to create my personal hell?

:) I could see some features becoming quite annoying, especially if you have to click through a bunch of upsells to finally add item to order. I think places could get creative though, for example leave comments for the chef about the meal, make specific requests which the prep team can respond to, have the chef speak about the daily specials in video rather than have a wait staff regurgitate them after having never…

> I could see some features becoming quite annoying, especially if you have to click through a bunch of upsells to finally add item to order.

...which is exactly what would happen, because you can measure how many times the upsell works, but you can't easily measure how many people stop going to your restaurant as a result of this crap, and companies will literally kill people if they can find metrics to show it's profitable.

> I think places could get creative though, for example leave comments for the chef about the meal, make specific requests which the prep team can respond to, have the chef speak about the daily specials in video rather than have a wait staff regurgitate them after having never tried them.

Having worked in food service in the past, the last thing chefs want is comments on the meal from customers. The ignorance and rudeness of the general public when it comes to food is astounding.

The chef speaking about the daily specials might be the only reasonable idea here, but my gut feel is that the only people who would use this would be tech folks interested in the feature, not end users. I don't think this is probably enough of a value add to be worth implementing.

Re: Bring back menus, QR codes are terrible

#589

Post by gjs278 » Tue, Jun 29, 2021, 5:43 PM UTC

asdff wrote: post #575

cddotdotslash wrote: post #559

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How does ordering via QR code change the quality of the food itself? Just because you clicked a button to order the food instead of telling a server what you want who then wrote it in a notebook and went back to a terminal to enter it, should not have any bearing on how the food tastes.

What changes is you no longer have a customer service rep on the line, which is what you de facto have with a server at your table. I could ask them questions about all sorts of specific ingredients on the menu so I end up guessing nothing about what I am ordering. For online menus, sometimes you take a shot into the dark because you can't get any description on the item besides "89. - Orange chicken" or however it c…

who fucking cares? pay the $3 extra dollars and order the rice. if you get extra throw it away. ive never had a waiter answer a question that could have just been printed on the menu in the first place or solved by merely taking a picture of the food.

Re: Bring back menus, QR codes are terrible

#590

Post by drdeadringer » Tue, Jun 29, 2021, 5:44 PM UTC

fleddr wrote: post #443

monkeynotes wrote: post #321

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wait, restaurants are making you order from an app too?? So now you don't really need your 'exhausted wait staff' so much. Hire less wait staff as a portion are now are underutilized. Now some wait staff have no jobs, and the remainder work the same exhausting shifts. The reason these wait staff get tips is because they work so hard, with less service comes less tips. Now you have a whole industry of overworked AND u…

To each their own, but to me this ceremony provides zero value. Waiters take the order and may comment on the weather, it's not like we're developing a deep friendship here. The "tradition" is to sit, wait for a waiter to appear. Ask for purpose (lunch? big meal? just a drink?). Then you wait again for the correct menu to appear. Then you get asked for a drink. And wait for the drink. And then comes the longer wait w…

3-4 hours is a long time. That sounds like a leisurely dinner set on "Italian Mode" [no offence] with a reservation, not a work lunch on Tuesday in the US.

This ritual or ceremony of waiter, menu, waiting, ordering, signalling for the cheque that you apparently find vile... I enjoy it. Any inefficiency you have declared is part of the experience of going out to eat.

You want fast food? Go get fast food.

You want a butler and cook? Hire them.

You want to go out to dinner? Here's a waitress, menu, and some time for walking back and forth between their station and your table and their other tables in their zone.

All of this is, or at least should be, factored in to the restaurant's business. It's been 100 years, at least in the US. If they don't get it by now, at least you should.