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Bring back menus, QR codes are terrible

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Re: Bring back menus, QR codes are terrible

#461

Post by melomal »

jasonlotito wrote: post #436
melomal wrote: post #425

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's odd because it almost seems like a middle ground of having both options is unacceptable. It's chalk and cheese, black or white. You can literally have both physical and digital menu's and cater to everyone's needs. No harm done. People who loathe the idea can carry on, people that love the idea can carry on.

That's what I'm seeing at restaurants around here, both options. Default to digital, with the offer of a physical menu if you need. It's nice. Is that not common?

Going from the mass hate for QR code menus you would think not? Honestly, what's up with these polar opposites on HN. Never a middle ground.

Re: Bring back menus, QR codes are terrible

#462

Post by Kaze404 »

melomal wrote: post #425
infecto wrote: post #417

It's really interesting to see how a crowd of tech workers who generally are trying to pave the way are so quick to attack and be negative. Like all things in life, when its implemented well it works and when it does not it is terrible. I still think there is room for this to be the future though. I say this as a westerner but perhaps the west is not ready for it yet but I really enjoyed the experience of using QR co…

It's odd because it almost seems like a middle ground of having both options is unacceptable. It's chalk and cheese, black or white. You can literally have both physical and digital menu's and cater to everyone's needs. No harm done. People who loathe the idea can carry on, people that love the idea can carry on.

Having both could cause issues, as the digital menu is much easier to update than the physical one, which can lead to inconsistencies. Not that it means it shouldn't be an option, it's just something that needs to be considered

Re: Bring back menus, QR codes are terrible

#463

Post by doom2 »

neither_color wrote: post #12

The worst thing about QR code menus is that they're often just a paper-sized PDF that you have to pinch and zoom around. If they could design QR code menus like responsive mobile sites inspired by food-ordering apps this wouldn't be an issue, they'd be even better than paper menus. When I was in China I enjoyed using their mobile menus. A common layout I saw was a narrow vertical bar on the left with categories(appet…

This comment and the one below it, also about China[1], should be higher up. It was very convenient to be in a restaurant and have a digital menu in a standardized format. Of course, it required a number of factors to align: all interactions were through one of two apps (WeChat or Alipay), the menu layout was standard, font size was not tiny (no zooming necessary), cell and/or wifi coverage was not lacking. There was also a choice between having a menu portal and just a payment portal. Street food vendors usually had a laminated QR code tacked to their cart and you could scan and pay without the vendor needing to ever handle cash, which made for a more efficient processing of the line.

It certainly wasn't a perfect system, but it was a lot better than the US, where restaurants have multiple different menu layouts, some are PDF, some let you pay via mobile, etc. The lack of relative uniformity makes for some positive but many negative user experiences.

[1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27671788

Re: Bring back menus, QR codes are terrible

#464

Post by alisonatwork »

infecto wrote: post #417

It's really interesting to see how a crowd of tech workers who generally are trying to pave the way are so quick to attack and be negative. Like all things in life, when its implemented well it works and when it does not it is terrible. I still think there is room for this to be the future though. I say this as a westerner but perhaps the west is not ready for it yet but I really enjoyed the experience of using QR co…

This process was one of my most hated "innovations" in food ordering in China. It turns every restaurant into a production line fast food operation, exactly like American chain restaurants. At that point, why even bother going to a restaurant at all? Might as well just order a Sysco-equivalent microwave meal at the supermarket or 7/11, because the flavor and the service will be exactly the same.

For me the best restaurants in China were the mom and pop joints where the person who takes your order is also the person who cooks your meal, or at least where you can see into the kitchen from the dining room so you can call out a request or ask a question as they're preparing it. This way it's much easier to figure out what's in the dish, see if the food is fresh, ask for it a bit more spicy, add another side, whatever. It makes the meal into a more of a social experience, and something that feels homey and satisfying rather than mass-produced.

Ironically going to these sorts of Chinese chain restaurants with the QR code menu, they also tended to be twice the price of the mom and pop joints, so whatever money they might be saving by eliminating a server is definitely not passed down to the consumer.

Re: Bring back menus, QR codes are terrible

#465

Post by whimsicalism »

seanmcdirmid wrote: post #44
whimsicalism wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It would be lovely if we could move closer to the Chinese consumer model re: QR codes in general. Wechat pay/Alipay are incredibly convenient.

I find paying via QR code to be much less convenient than NFC that is more popular in the west. Tap and pay is really quick, especially in countries like Australia.

Hm, maybe.

But can they afford to have an NFC reader at every single table?

Can street vendors without access to electricity/mobile connection just hold up a QR code cut into some wood and you can pay that way?

NFC seems to put the onus on the vendor, Wechat pay/Alipay has no such problem.

It's definitely not quick in the US, where it hasn't been really adopted at the same level, it might be fast in Australia.

Re: Bring back menus, QR codes are terrible

#466

Post by whimsicalism »

barbazoo wrote: post #78
cunthorpe wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unlocking your phone, opening an app, possibly unlocking that one, tapping to scan, and then accept is NOT more convenient than NFC in your card. Unless your talking about costs. For private free money transfer, the US and many other places have similar if not better methods.

Or NFC in your phone. I can't imagine it being more convenient than that.

The problem is that you have to have an NFC reader that they bring to you or that is at every table (if you are, say, in a restaurant).

By contrast, QR codes are cheap to manufacture, so you can put it on every table and anyone anywhere can pay without having to go to the counter or whatever.

Plus, NFC doesn't work over distance. Nor is it bidirectional.

I think there is something about QR that helps it gain critical mass over NFC, I have not seen anywhere penetrated as heavily by NFC as the QR codes are in China. Alipay QR codes are showing up in DC & SF too now.

I'm curious if those commenting have been to China/used the QR code system, I was likewise very skeptical before visiting.

Re: Bring back menus, QR codes are terrible

#467

Post by thomascgalvin »

infecto wrote: post #417

It's really interesting to see how a crowd of tech workers who generally are trying to pave the way are so quick to attack and be negative. Like all things in life, when its implemented well it works and when it does not it is terrible. I still think there is room for this to be the future though. I say this as a westerner but perhaps the west is not ready for it yet but I really enjoyed the experience of using QR co…

My big issue, which should be easily correctable, is that every menu QR code I've scanned results in a PDF that I have to download.

Nobody wants PDFs. On desktop sites, it's common to add a (PDF Warning) to links that lead to PDFs.

And on a phone, PDFs are even worse. They're almost always sized for the desktop, which means you have to pinch and scroll to see anything, and I don't download stuff from Firefox often enough to know how to find and delete the menus for every single restaurant I eat at.

If the menu QR code led to a responsive website, I'd be fine with it. When the QR code leads to a PDF, it makes me angry. If the QR code led to an app I had to install, I'd walk directly out of the restaurant.

Re: Bring back menus, QR codes are terrible

#468

Post by klhutchins »

mjevans wrote: post #77
klhutchins wrote: post #35

QR codes are no good if cell service is spotty with certain carriers. Recently at a distant restaurant, I scanned the QR, waited for it to time out, discover there was no cell service, find the free wifi, enable my VPN, connect to the restaurants wifi, wait for authentication, then open camera app and scan QR again, wait for the kindle app to open the PDF, only to be handed a paper menu a few seconds later... I know…

The data limits for a QR code are rather small. Note the storage is also used by ECC payload, which generally isn't optional. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/QR_code#Storage The menu is probably going to insist on using lower case letters, and the "Binary/byte" encoding will be interpreted as something between 7-bit ASCII and UTF-8 depending on the client. With the ECC payload 2,953 bytes sounds like quite a lot, THEN…

Haha, yeah... I'm not sure how important it is to have ECC to menu text.. good info.

Re: Bring back menus, QR codes are terrible

#469

Post by melomal »

Kaze404 wrote: post #462
melomal wrote: post #425

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's odd because it almost seems like a middle ground of having both options is unacceptable. It's chalk and cheese, black or white. You can literally have both physical and digital menu's and cater to everyone's needs. No harm done. People who loathe the idea can carry on, people that love the idea can carry on.

Having both could cause issues, as the digital menu is much easier to update than the physical one, which can lead to inconsistencies. Not that it means it shouldn't be an option, it's just something that needs to be considered

This is very true.

I wonder how often restaurants change their menus. I live on the coast of Poland and 5 years later of living here, I can probably tell you what the menu is for the 5 'hot' locations to go to because it literally hasn't changed.

Re: Bring back menus, QR codes are terrible

#470

Post by fouric »

infecto wrote: post #417

It's really interesting to see how a crowd of tech workers who generally are trying to pave the way are so quick to attack and be negative. Like all things in life, when its implemented well it works and when it does not it is terrible. I still think there is room for this to be the future though. I say this as a westerner but perhaps the west is not ready for it yet but I really enjoyed the experience of using QR co…

> It's really interesting to see how a crowd of tech workers who generally are trying to pave the way are so quick to attack and be negative.

This statement is utterly useless. It provides no value to the discussion, doesn't make any interesting points, and tries to emotionally manipulate the reader.

> Like all things in life, when its implemented well it works and when it does not it is terrible.

HN readers seem to be bearish on these technologies because they're usually implemented poorly, and there's very little reason to believe that the situation will substantially improve anytime soon (or at all). People generally discriminate between restaurants based on price and food, not menus, so there's little incentive for restaurants to improve electronic menus - similar to business websites - meaning that if QR code menus gain wide adoption, we're extremely likely to see significantly worse experiences near-universally.

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