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Ask HN: What should I say to my manager when my performance starts suffering?

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Re: Ask HN: What should I say to my manager when my performance starts suffering?

#111

Post by PragmaticPulp »

sp332 wrote: post #89
adhdsufferer wrote: post #80

> I always lose my job or quit. See a psychologist and/or psychiatrist. This is something you can work through. Whatever issue you’re dealing with, there’s people who are very experienced in helping you figure out what it is and how to start dealing with it. For what it’s worth, you might have ADHD if you’re always quitting or being fired because of an inability to perform to your own abilities. Or you might have som…

I'm not scared of it, but I have no idea how to go about it. Yellow pages?

Start with your insurance company’s website to find covered doctors nearby.

Don’t fret about picking the perfect doctor or trying to parse reviews of doctors on the doctor review sites. You want whoever is nearby with availability for appointments. You can always switch providers later.

It’s extremely important that you go into any appointments with an open mind. Present your problems and symptoms, but don’t go in expecting a certain diagnosis or certain medications. Steering toward the wrong diagnosis (example: seeking ADHD medications when your problem is actually burnout, depression, anxiety, or even physical health issues) can actually worsen your problems

Re: Ask HN: What should I say to my manager when my performance starts suffering?

#112

Post by sshumaker »

brutus1213 wrote: post #103
pavlov wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> “we think you haven't been performing as well as you used to lately” Also make sure to qualify this with actual examples of underperformance: “In March you gave a three-week estimate for roadmap item X, but it wasn’t completed until June. Amy from team Y reached out to me several times with questions about its status, so communication hasn’t been up to your usual standard.” If the manager doesn’t give the report so…

This is really helpful. What if the engineer says "well .. this is complex and I can't really provide an estimate/depends on availability of an HPC and I have no idea how long the job will be stuck in the queue, etc."? When faced with this type of response I try to dig into the detail but it feels to me the employee gives me more molasses. Any suggestion on how to deal with this situation?

Coach: “What’s the real challenge here for you?” “What do you need to get to an estimate?”

Offer help: “What do you need to get unblocked?” “Let’s sit down together and see if we can figure this out.”

Hold them accountable: “I understand, but we need to be keeping our partners up to date.” “Can you give me a date for a date?”

Teach: “Here’s what I recommend…”

Etc. You as a manager should be actively helping your employee work through the issue - whether it’s external or internal (growth for them).

Re: Ask HN: What should I say to my manager when my performance starts suffering?

#113

Post by giantg2 »

isatty wrote: post #56
coliveira wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The sad reality is that programming as we knew years ago is going into extinction. The only thing that remains is to work as library integrator and debugger for X, where X is something that is popular this week. All interesting software development left is in open source, and SEs are now just required to integrate existing libraries into a GUI done by somebody else, or a server side component that talks to that GUI.…

This is not true at all. Software engineering is about solving problems. Are you not solving problems with existing libraries?

At my company, we don't really solve problems. The business creates their business system/flow, then we implement it. They handle the strategy, be just obey. We might hit technical problems, but that's not really the same as solving the business problem. Usually it would make sense technically and from a business standpoint to tweak the business system to solve the problem, but that's never an option.

Re: Ask HN: What should I say to my manager when my performance starts suffering?

#114

Post by PragmaticPulp »

DataBrokerLol wrote: post #82
adhdsufferer wrote: post #80

> I always lose my job or quit. See a psychologist and/or psychiatrist. This is something you can work through. Whatever issue you’re dealing with, there’s people who are very experienced in helping you figure out what it is and how to start dealing with it. For what it’s worth, you might have ADHD if you’re always quitting or being fired because of an inability to perform to your own abilities. Or you might have som…

Many people are scared of seeing mental health professionals because we live in the period of history where these sciences are just starting out, so when someone says "I always lose my job or quit", there is an immediate jump towards diagnosing that person with a mental "illness". The problem is that these diagnoses aren't only happening in error and without consequences on HN. I would argue that it is far more produ…

You’re exactly right. It seems every Ask HN thread lately comes with an armchair diagnosis of ADHD lately.

Mental health professionals are available if you or your partner would like to talk. Therapists would be a better place to start than jumping to a psychiatrist and medications. Definitely don’t try to get ADHD stimulants and power through burnout in a job she hates. That would make burnout exponentially worse.

If your partner decides to try therapy, it can even be done over video calls now. Depending on insurance the video therapy is often quite cheap, too. Of course, it’s up to you if you want to pursue that route. I agree that jumping to specific diagnoses based on a few sentences of your question is inappropriate.

Re: Ask HN: What should I say to my manager when my performance starts suffering?

#115

Post by tyingq »

Can you clarify this part?

"if you've been spending more time doing ___"

Is the underlined blank something you aren't supposed to be doing?

For example, if the statement was:

"Just wanted to check in and see if you'll still be doing new features from here on out, or if you've been spending more time doing work to cut down our tech debt"

That could be an innocuous question with no hidden criticism. Just curiosity about who is doing what. I'd ask for clarification if that were the case:

"Yes, I've been working on tech debt items, as I can see that nobody else is. Is my intuition right, or would you rather I work on new features?"

Re: Ask HN: What should I say to my manager when my performance starts suffering?

#116

Post by giantg2 »

yebyen wrote: post #99
ahtihn wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why are you discussing how you're going to implement a change with your manager? In your scenario, the "better" way appears to require the same time anyway so just present that as the only way to do it.

"What are you working on now? Why does that part take so long? Can we skip it altogether?" They're not stupid, they know a little bit about the path from point A to point B. I have never given an estimate that was not later called into question and asked to be reduced. Usually much sooner in fact. In many cases, asking for an estimate is fishing for a way to make the problem easier to solve. But they don't really wan…

"But they don't really want to make the problem easier to solve, they just want to get it done quicker (with no regard for whether or not it makes the next problem harder to get this problem done the quicker way.)"

Truth

Re: Ask HN: What should I say to my manager when my performance starts suffering?

#117

Post by ratww »

diydsp wrote: post #107
ratww wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How do you get more clear? When I say "If there's anything I can help with please let me know." that's what I mean. The misinterpretation is because of overthinking, not because of vagueness. I can reassure the person if they want, but they have to tell me they need reassurance before, or I have to at least detect they're uncomfortable. I'm not gonna go to every employee and say "ok just so you know, I'm not thinking…

>How do you get more clear? Consider this: "It's not our biggest account, but it does count for something, so I really want our team to get the demo online by Thursday, so I was thinking of having Jared work with you for for the next two days, or having you hold off on the Tachyon project until Fusion is ready. Which of those options sounds good to you?" These are the techniques used: The message began with "Just wan…

You basically took a whole long-form comment to repeat what I had already mentioned in my original message:

> However I notice that the specific message on OP is a bit ambiguous, I would personally add some suggestions.

Re: Ask HN: What should I say to my manager when my performance starts suffering?

#118

Post by giantg2 »

akhleung wrote: post #71
isatty wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is not true at all. Software engineering is about solving problems. Are you not solving problems with existing libraries?

I think the analogy is that software engineering used to be like carpentry and woodworking, but now it's more like assembling Ikea furniture. Sure, the final result is the same from a purely practical point of view, but if you learned and loved the former, then it definitely feels like something has been lost in the latter.

I wish my tasks came with IKEA instructions...

Re: Ask HN: What should I say to my manager when my performance starts suffering?

#119

Post by giantg2 »

TehShrike wrote: post #23
giantg2 wrote: post #7

"In software this would be the equivalent of just writing components or html for an extended period of time without any variety, which is soulcrushing." I actually want less variety. I never get consistent work. How can I be an expert if I don't have a steady type of work. I'm really struggling right now. A lot of that is because I know that anything I learn at work will be used once and then thrown away. What's the…

I think fondly of the two summers I spent mowing and wheedwhacking. There was a skill curve, I practiced and got better, and then got to ride that peak for a while.

I've been in software 9 years. My peak was 4 years ago. It's all downhill from here.

Re: Ask HN: What should I say to my manager when my performance starts suffering?

#120

Post by giantg2 »

iheartlife wrote: post #8
giantg2 wrote: post #7

"In software this would be the equivalent of just writing components or html for an extended period of time without any variety, which is soulcrushing." I actually want less variety. I never get consistent work. How can I be an expert if I don't have a steady type of work. I'm really struggling right now. A lot of that is because I know that anything I learn at work will be used once and then thrown away. What's the…

You could try to become a respected expert in learning then? There is a lot of use for people who can pick up XYZ in a timely manner. Especially in software where the world moves so fast (unless you do C or similar) that yesteryears knowledge is outdated this year.

But it's usually not respected. You end up like me - an intermediate developer who is willing to pick up the shit tasks that nobody else wants. The only thing that will help get to higher compensation or a senior role is to become an expert to the point where you can leave and get a job almost anywhere. Stuff like FileNet, Neoxam, ASC, etc doesn't have a market. It's a necessary and important role for the company, but nobody wants to do them and very few people use them (or procedures for ASC vary too much).
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