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Biohackers take aim at big pharma’s stranglehold on insulin

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Re: Biohackers take aim at big pharma’s stranglehold on insulin

#291

Post by newbie789 »

nceqs3 wrote: post #78
clarkrinker wrote: post #38

Every time this stuff comes up it feels like we focus on the politics and not the people with diabetes. If you or your kid or your friends have Type 1 and are struggling to make your insulin out of pockets please, please, please call the Eli Lily hotline and get the copay card. They've dropped the monthly cost for Humalog to $35. Don't ration. Work the system. https://www.humalog.com/savings-support

Every drug company gives away their drugs for free to people who can't afford it in the US. It's sad that not enough people take advantage of patient assistance programs.

It’s amazing that you’re privy to this information!

I kind of figured all of the dead diabetics in the US that I’ve read about over the years was the result of a structural problem with our healthcare system. Apparently this is maybe an issue with suboptimal Google AdSense campaigns that led to fewer diabetics knowing about the font of free insulin?

What a revelation that the manufacturers that control the pricing of this life-saving drug (and apparently all other drugs) are actually blameless in every scenario and that anybody that rations and/or dies does so to themselves due to being dumb.

Re: Biohackers take aim at big pharma’s stranglehold on insulin

#292

Post by handmodel »

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #174
pope_meat wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wall Street Smart Genius types have long held that curing disease is bad business, managing symptoms over the entire lifetime allows them to extract more capital out of the cattle. So, if you're looking to cure something you're going to struggle to find funding. Don't worry though, the economy will survive.

> Wall Street Smart Genius types have long held that curing disease is bad business, managing symptoms over the entire lifetime allows them to extract more capital out of the cattle Nobody tell the multibillion dollar biotech industry… And in case it needs to be pointed out, no, cures are massively profitable. If someone has a cure for a presently untreatable disease you will get money, you will make money, everyone…

I would argue the vaccine for Covid is essentially a cure. And the economics aren't that good. People got it once. They may or may not take a booster every couple years. And that is for a disease that everyone was impacted from.

Meanwhile, a drug like viagra can be consumed several times a week for decades.

I don't think its pharma execs are sitting their blocking cures, but it is true that they will looks at risk/reward when deciding. If most drugs only have a very small chance of being approved (lets say 2%) and costs billions of dollars to move through the process - of course those that are needed over and over are going to be funded through research more.

Re: Biohackers take aim at big pharma’s stranglehold on insulin

#293

Post by pm90 »

coliveira wrote: post #182
pm90 wrote: post #167

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I mean, that’s not nothing. Maybe not revolt, but organize, pressure sitting politicians and encourage better candidates to run. Americans vilify their politicians and then expect that somehow really “good” people will get into that profession. I don’t get it…

What I mean is that traditional avenues for change have been closed by the pharma industry lobby. It is not very different from the situation with the oil industry. The traditional political system has been corrupted by these industry forces, which support both parties.

Could you tell me what traditional avenues were available to constituents that are not available anymore?

Re: Biohackers take aim at big pharma’s stranglehold on insulin

#294

Post by newbie789 »

newbie789 wrote: post #291
nceqs3 wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Every drug company gives away their drugs for free to people who can't afford it in the US. It's sad that not enough people take advantage of patient assistance programs.

It’s amazing that you’re privy to this information! I kind of figured all of the dead diabetics in the US that I’ve read about over the years was the result of a structural problem with our healthcare system. Apparently this is maybe an issue with suboptimal Google AdSense campaigns that led to fewer diabetics knowing about the font of free insulin? What a revelation that the manufacturers that control the pricing of…

I should clarify that I’ve lived with T1D folks in the US for my entire life and I’ve seen them have to choose between food/rent/car insurance/etc and insulin more times than I can count.

The comment that I’m responding to strikes me as either alarmingly uninformed about the material conditions that many, many diabetics find themselves in, naïveté based around completely believing some marketing pamphlet, or genuinely making statements in bad faith. I chose to respond in a sarcastic way in my previous comment because the nature of that statement is so incredibly outlandish and broad that it genuinely seems like a comment in bad faith.

“All pharmaceuticals are free if you just go to the website” is genuinely such a dada-esque-ly untrue statements for the majority of Americans that I can only imagine a person making that statement as a joke or a lie.

Re: Biohackers take aim at big pharma’s stranglehold on insulin

#295

Post by v77 »

ggm wrote: post #277

As an observation, The UK, USA, Canada and Australia are all in the top 10 for type-1 diabetes incidence in the Only the USA imposes private health cost burdens on the diabetics (from my quick scan of national health info on the web)

Not true, Canada doesn't cover medications by default, you rely on employer-provided private plans for that.

Re: Biohackers take aim at big pharma’s stranglehold on insulin

#296

Post by refurb »

wizzwizz4 wrote: post #97
lotsofpulp wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wonder how the Hep C cures, COVID vaccines, shingles vaccine, HPV vaccines, and other cures got funding over the past 2 decades.

Grants and government funding, mostly. But then companies get patent monopolies on production because… reasons.

That’s not true in the least. It’s mostly private investment.

Re: Biohackers take aim at big pharma’s stranglehold on insulin

#297

Post by refurb »

nceqs3 wrote: post #65
DerpyBaby123 wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's not what is happening. It has nothing to do with a patent monopoly or recouping any investment: FTA: >In 1996, a vial of Humalog produced by Eli Lilly cost $21. Today, it's priced at $324 despite the cost of production remaining steady. >Rising costs are nothing new. Insulin prices tripled from 2002 to 2013, and doubled between 2012 and 2016. To put this into perspective, in 1996 a vial of Humalog produced by…

This is an incredibly stupid comment. Net price in Humalog has decreased since 2014 [0]. The PBMs jack up the list price so they can get their fat rebates. [0] = https://www.cnbc.com/2019/03/25/eli-lilly-discloses-pricing-... .

You are correct. It’s a rebate game. Net price of insulin has been going down.

https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-ZfBANMMU5dQ/XzFtNw93ZCI/AAAAAAAAq...

Re: Biohackers take aim at big pharma’s stranglehold on insulin

#298

Post by throwaway0a5e »

bingidingi wrote: post #268
distribot wrote: post #261

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I had a similar upbringing. All the hours of my childhood in the local health and human services offices and WIC nutritional centers turned me off of civil servants and bureaucrats. It felt like they were always condescending and snippy, or pretending my parents' English was way harder to understand than it is, or just delighting in telling us our stuff was out of order. Looking back they were probably just overworke…

I felt the same for a while too, but then I met someone that happened to work for child services. These are some caring and empathetic people working for peanuts and they aren’t really treated well by anyone, management and clients alike. This person in particular hated the work but didn’t want to quit for fear of letting their clients (children) down. People blame bureaucracy, and maybe there’s some truth there, but…

It's real easy to become a jaded clock puncher when you're a social worker on a six person team that can barely eek out three people's worth of work because three of the people are deadbeats who's only qualifications are an ability to deposit paychecks and knowing someone who was owed a favor by a politician or appointed high level bureaucrat. The one party states have it the worst because the "next guy's cronies" can't clean house without annoying people within their own network because they're all from the same party. That's assuming they're not union positions and they can actually be fired or laid off in a practical manner.

Nobody who has drive and wants to get shit done lasts very long in that environment. There are occasional pockets of "good" but they don't last because when they accomplish too much people move up and out or they get reigned in by the rest of the system.

Source: members of my household work in government providing social services.

Re: Biohackers take aim at big pharma’s stranglehold on insulin

#299

Post by kortex »

nknealk wrote: post #30

Some considerations on manufacturing — there’s a variety of product quality steps necessary to release batches of medicine. The FDA mandates this as part of GMP regulations. These steps help ensure things like: * How do I know that every vial has the same concentration of insulin each time? That is to say 1 unit from a vial today and 1 unit from another vial is going to have the same dosing. * How do I know the insul…

The FDA won't let anything be released to consumers that does not pass their review of the batch record. The whole point of the BR is it's the recipe in totality of how to correctly (which includes quality) make the drug.

The whole point is to open source the batch record.

Re: Biohackers take aim at big pharma’s stranglehold on insulin

#300

Post by refurb »

ravitation wrote: post #138
HPsquared wrote: post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I guess the question is, do countries with socialized healthcare provide the cheap version or the expensive one?

Not actually the question since countries with modern healthcare systems provide all types of insulin at an average cost per unit that is roughly 1/10th to 1/20th the cost in the United States (cheap vs. expensive is an over simplification).

No, it is the question because countries with public health systems often don’t pay for the latest generation of drugs, since they don’t feel the extra cost is worth the benefit.
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