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The 'Fuck You' Pattern

cedwards.xyz

401–410 of 619 posts

Re: The 'Fuck You' Pattern

#401

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So, which do you want? A go-to place to see , or a ton of smaller forums and communities?

Have many smaller ones and aggregate them by yourself with RSS feeds.

And the vast majority of the internet-using populace, who will never figure this out, can just go screw themselves?

Re: The 'Fuck You' Pattern

#402
post #204
post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Pinterest and Reddit are not better these days. The amount of things you can view on reddit on your phone without creating an account or installing the app is dwindling daily. Every time my wife sends me a Pinterest link I just ask her to screenshot it as I can't see shit on the default mobile page. I don't even know why Google continues to allow them in the results when there is clear-cut policies around showing som…

Reddit (the service) is tons better than Pinterest, facebook, instagram... I think it's totally out of line to group Reddit in with them. The new reddit website is total trash but you can use like 99% of reddit without ever visiting the website. I use Apollo for example, and there are many other apps you can use or develop your own. You can also use old.reddit.com. Access to reddit is much more open than any of these…

I disagree it's out of line to group Reddit with the likes of Pinterest, fb, etc. The fact that they're slightly more user-friendly doesn't make up for using dark patterns and dirty tricks.

I think it's unethical to intentionally design features that confuse users and force them to take roads they don't really want to take. Reddit crossed a line with the annoying pop-up that constantly asks you to download their app, for example. I don't care that the pop-up is less persistent than let's say Instagram. It's ill-intentioned design and it shouldn't exist.

Re: The 'Fuck You' Pattern

#403

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> What? You thought it was fair that a company spends millions in technical infrastructure and staffing so you can sit at home and spend your time looking at cats for free? Is that really fair? Would there be nowhere to see pictures of cats without their millions of dollars in infrastructure and staffing? Or could it be that their millions of dollars in infrastructure and staffing for selling ads is the reason the go…

Aggregation and distribution are virtues of large communities, not small ones. The sophistication of Facebok's business is what allows the creation and distribution of content. I agree that if Facebook, Snap, Pinterest, Reddit, Nextdoor, Twitter etc, didn't exist, small communities would fill that void... But they would do through a fragmented and siloed user experience that is hardly discoverable for the majority of…

> ...small communities would fill that void.

For a short time, and the overwhelming majority of people would have no idea that content exists. Then some enterprising startup founder would realize that there's a huge market for those exact services, and history would slowly repeat (rhyme with?) itself.

This free content, sans big tech pipedream is just that. Sorry if that makes you sad.

Re: The 'Fuck You' Pattern

#404
post #369
post #174

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> You thought it was fair that a company spends millions in technical infrastructure and staffing so you can sit at home and spend your time looking at cats for free? No, they have your attention and they're going to connect you to organizations who will pay for it. "The infrastructure" to share cat pictures cost peanuts. It's the addictive dark patterns and montezation/tracking that costs millions. That's the irony.

Go an and run a site that serves massive amounts of cat pictures for peanuts! Well, yes, serving static HTML is easy. Serving images is kind of not hard either, because you have free unlimited traffic, don't you? Some hosting plans offer it. They just limit the egress bandwidth. So maybe you need a few more servers to cope with it, just like $50 a pop. You're not gonna need any CDN, people further away from your DC w…

Sounds like overkill, mate. I’ll go with your comments parent. Maybe 5 peanuts. In all seriousness, I’ll agree on cdn at 20 a month plus 3 @ 15 dollar nodes running out app and db, let’s go multimaster with a local db node on each app server, screw the c go for a and p, and yeah a single haproxy hardware thread, ha, so make that 2 single core nodes 1gb will do fine for 300k connections per second, um you mentioned staff? For what exactly?

Anyway, you can do anything the hard way, but what’s your point? That serving millions of cats per second requires big investment that must be recouped? I see most of this as rent seeking, and the infrastructure is economy of scale. Maybe you use tensor flow and Kafka inside Kubernetes, I dunno…

I agree that one can expect lame websites to act lame, but it’s out of sheer churlishness rather than necessity

Re: The 'Fuck You' Pattern

#405

I'm glad we now have a name for this. If I may take a stab at a more formal, reusable definition of the Fuck You pattern: A UI pattern whereby content a user wants is provided, then yanked away before it can be consumed, to be replaced by a demand for something the site wants (log in, sign up, subscribe, pay, etc). It's distinct from merely providing a limited amount of content in the first place, as when a site offe…

Very well articulated. It's the digital equivalent of emotional blackmail.

Re: The 'Fuck You' Pattern

#406
post #13

I love instagram. It's the best social media site. Last time I checked, I couldn't even make an account from my desktop computer. I'm not gonna even try to install their app on my G-free phone. When a friends sends me a link to Instagram, I know that I don't need to click on it -- the thumbnail contains all the information that I'd ever see without creating an account. When news articles consist of a bunch of embedde…

I tried to create an Instagram account to be able to see some photos.

The first attempt stopped at "unexpected error" just after selecting a login name.

The second attempt with different email address in a different browser ended the same way.

Third attempt I tried from the third browser, via cellular data and gmail email. That one finished ok but still returned back to Sign up right after the last signup atep. Entering the same data in Sign up resulted in "there is account using this email". So I tried to log in and it was successful but it immediately showed "suspicious activity dialog" FORCING me to enter phone number and do SMS verification. After I did that, my shiny new Instagram account started working.

But I expect it will be blocked or deleted for inactivity soon unless I start submitting photos or generate enough ad impressions or ad clicks. I use adblock though..

Re: The 'Fuck You' Pattern

#407

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I honestly don’t think it would be hard, especially with AWS abstracting away all scaling issues from you.

Hard to abstract away the money that it'll cost - which is the original point here. They're doing something that costs money, and people want to use that something, so they're doing what it takes to make money from it.

If your business isn’t scaling with users, it’s a business model problem not a technical one

Re: The 'Fuck You' Pattern

#408

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ads are fine. The "fuck you" pattern is letting you see the cat picture for 5 seconds before covering it up and requiring you to create an account and share your data with Facebook before you can see it.

Everyone everywhere has realized throughout the ages that conversion of anything is higher when you get a demo of the product. This isn't a "fuck you" pattern. They gave you a social media Costco food sample.

> Everyone everywhere has realized throughout the ages that conversion of anything is higher when you get a demo of the product.

Apparently not video games. Not many game companies offer demos anymore because they actually hurt sales.

Re: The 'Fuck You' Pattern

#409
post #204

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Reddit (the service) is tons better than Pinterest, facebook, instagram... I think it's totally out of line to group Reddit in with them. The new reddit website is total trash but you can use like 99% of reddit without ever visiting the website. I use Apollo for example, and there are many other apps you can use or develop your own. You can also use old.reddit.com. Access to reddit is much more open than any of these…

I disagree it's out of line to group Reddit with the likes of Pinterest, fb, etc. The fact that they're slightly more user-friendly doesn't make up for using dark patterns and dirty tricks. I think it's unethical to intentionally design features that confuse users and force them to take roads they don't really want to take. Reddit crossed a line with the annoying pop-up that constantly asks you to download their app,…

That's a good point, but I think Reddit is more than "slightly more user-friendly." It's developer friendly - way more so than other big networks - and that makes a big difference.

Look, I don't work for reddit or have any skin in the game, other than I use it every day (it being the service - I RARELY use the official app or website). And granted, I'm not a typical Internet enjoyer, but it's easier for me to enjoy reddit than it is to enjoy facebook, instagram, linkedin, pinterest, tiktok, because of decisions reddit made to not do what all these other ones did.

Again I say - that's a very low bar. Reddit app and reddit website still suck. But reddit the service and the company is 10x better than the other networks (note I'm not commenting on the CONTENT here, that's for another day)

Re: The 'Fuck You' Pattern

#410
Your contract with the platform when you get the content is, you're going to log in/use the app. Otherwise you couldn't get the content on an ad-supported basis. Any time you try to scrape the web page you're actually stealing content.
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