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Biohackers take aim at big pharma’s stranglehold on insulin

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Re: Biohackers take aim at big pharma’s stranglehold on insulin

#211

Post by ska »

RHSeeger wrote: post #191
ska wrote: post #144

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How cheap is the cheap option? I found some references for "old" versions that claim price increase from $17 in 1997 to $138 today, another from $21 to $255. Going by inflation only those would be around $30-40. I don't know how much a typical diabetic needs per month (I imagine it varies) but I could see that being a problem for a lot of people if that is, say a monthly supply.

> How cheap is the cheap option About $25, that last I checked. The ones you're talking about, I believe, are the "newer" ones (which are not very new). The prices of those have shot up over the years (in the US) for no good reason. It's shameful.

I guess my mistake was thinking 20 plus years was old enough, that would be out of patent.

Re: Biohackers take aim at big pharma’s stranglehold on insulin

#212

Post by [deleted] »

DaiPlusPlus wrote: post #196
nceqs3 wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Every drug company gives away their drugs for free to people who can't afford it in the US. It's sad that not enough people take advantage of patient assistance programs.

> Every drug company gives away their drugs for free to people who can't afford it in the US I don't believe this is universally true though. For example, patent-encumbered novel delivery mechanisms for existing (generic) drugs, like Concerta. The drug company has nothing to gain by maintaining the administrative infrastructure for patient-assistance for drugs like that. Another example are personalised therpaies, su…

[deleted]

Re: Biohackers take aim at big pharma’s stranglehold on insulin

#213

Post by Benjamin_Dobell »

My 3 year old daughter was recently diagnosed Type 1. Soon after her diagnosis I discovered a heap of articles about the Open Insulin Foundation. I was even on their website 24 hours ago. However, for the life of me I can't find anything "open" about the Open Insulin Foundation.

Could someone please point me in the right direction where I can read anything with more substance than a news article quoting an interview?

EDIT: Just to clarify. We're extremely fortunate that we're in Australia. Insulin is affordable/subsidised here, my daughter's CGM (and sensors) are free, and anything else we need is heavily subsidised too. I've no intention of biohacking anything to do with my daughter's Type 1.

I'm asking the above mostly because I'm curious. Admittedly I find it a bit scary that I know so little about the manufacturing of something that is 100% vital to my daughter's survival. I'd like to know more.

Re: Biohackers take aim at big pharma’s stranglehold on insulin

#214

Post by cadr »

Thebroser wrote: post #205
nom wrote: post #173

Can someone explain in layman's terms why there is no competition on this market? As insulin is so cheap to produce, why can't I just get my own product approved and sell it?

There are crazy patents throughout the entirety of the insulin production pipeline. Some of these being extremely absurd such as patenting the pH of a buffer for specific protocols! I volunteer for the Open Insulin Foundation on/off when not too focused on my research project and it's basically how can we come up with a roadmap to making this decentralized insulin without violating any existing patents. An added laye…

I wonder if a better effort would be to challenge the patents rather than try to go around them.

(Not that I don't think what you are doing is awesome, because I do.)

Re: Biohackers take aim at big pharma’s stranglehold on insulin

#216

Post by pimeys »

myelin wrote: post #179
pimeys wrote: post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When you eat lots of fat and protein as a T1, you just get a slowly rising glucose that needs insulin and is harder to control compared to carbs with less fat. T1 is really complex even with a low carb diet, if you don't only eat vegetables, but meatier food.

Yeah, T1 is pretty much just a pain whatever you do. Low carb does make it quite a bit easier, and I imagine would pretty much be the only safe way to eat if you were using a non-rapid insulin. Unfortunately (doctor's orders) I also have to cut back on the cholesterol, which seems to be very high in all my favorite low-carb foods :( It's a constant experiment; it may turn out to make more sense to eat more fat but ta…

Some other things that raise your glucose and you need insulin:

- waking up, liver produces glucagon

- stress at work, hormones going wild… including glucagon

- weather changes, when it is cooler you need more insulin

- you get sick. 2-3x insulin for me

- liver just having a normal glucagon production, that needs insulin without you ever eating anything

Nice that you have your A1c in control. Mine is 5.8% without too many hypos after 26 years of having T1. The tech I need for this costs a fortune without insurance, but at least I can finally live a normal life without nasty surprises every day.

Re: Biohackers take aim at big pharma’s stranglehold on insulin

#217

Post by clarkrinker »

fencepost wrote: post #195
clarkrinker wrote: post #38

Every time this stuff comes up it feels like we focus on the politics and not the people with diabetes. If you or your kid or your friends have Type 1 and are struggling to make your insulin out of pockets please, please, please call the Eli Lily hotline and get the copay card. They've dropped the monthly cost for Humalog to $35. Don't ration. Work the system. https://www.humalog.com/savings-support

Ah, but are those assistance programs available to people on Medicare or Medicaid? I know a diabetic on Medicare so I've watched ads and lots of the ones that mention how little your copay can be seem to have a little note at the bottom of the screen "for patients on commercial insurance."

The Part D reforms from this year cap insulin costs at [1] $35 a month. You can setup your social security benefit to have it automatically deducted

The premiums for part D in Washington State are about $40 a month [2]

Most Medicaid recipients don't pay out of pocket for insulin.

[1] https://www.medicare.gov/coverage/insulin [2] https://www.insurance.wa.gov/what-does-medicare-prescription... [3] https://www.commonwealthfund.org/publications/issue-briefs/2...

Re: Biohackers take aim at big pharma’s stranglehold on insulin

#219

Post by chiefalchemist »

dekhn wrote: post #102
chiefalchemist wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The situation is that Type 2 Diabetes has raised the demand for insulin. More demand raises prices. The thing we can't talk about without risking cancellation is that nearly all Type 2 Diabetes is preventable. In other words, the choices of the many have a significant negative impact on those (i.e., Type 1'ers) who don't really have a choice.

the increased demand for insulin is not why the price is higher. Insulin is made in massive facilities in large batch runs. Making 5X to 10X is basically cost of materials, which haven't really increased enough to justify the price increase. This is (mostly likely) a rent-seeking situation where a few providers who are allowed in the market are milking it for all the profit they can.

> This is (mostly likely) a rent-seeking situation where a few providers who are allowed in the market are milking it for all the profit they can.

That is also known as demand. They do because they can.

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