Biohackers take aim at big pharma’s stranglehold on insulin • Hacker News Board

Re: Biohackers take aim at big pharma’s stranglehold on insulin

#201

Post by pluto7777 » Mon, Jun 28, 2021, 8:20 PM UTC

sparrish wrote: post #8

This is bogus. Wal-mart sells insulin for $24.88 a vial without prescription currently. It's only the newer 'guchi' insulin brands that are crazy expensive. Stuff from 1996 that is compared to in this article is actually cheaper than it was in 1996 (adjusted for inflation).

Goodrx shows lispro generic $48.85 per vial. Humalog 'guchi' is $142.55. If you're fortunate enough to have diabetic retinopathy and can't read the tiny print, the larger kwikpens are only $270.28. Lets not even get into the real guchi brands.

Re: Biohackers take aim at big pharma’s stranglehold on insulin

#202

Post by Clubber » Mon, Jun 28, 2021, 8:20 PM UTC

nceqs3 wrote: post #78

clarkrinker wrote: post #38

Every time this stuff comes up it feels like we focus on the politics and not the people with diabetes. If you or your kid or your friends have Type 1 and are struggling to make your insulin out of pockets please, please, please call the Eli Lily hotline and get the copay card. They've dropped the monthly cost for Humalog to $35. Don't ration. Work the system. https://www.humalog.com/savings-support

Every drug company gives away their drugs for free to people who can't afford it in the US. It's sad that not enough people take advantage of patient assistance programs.

Got a link for this with some details? What does "can't afford," mean, how regularly is this available, how much of a hassle is it, etc.

Re: Biohackers take aim at big pharma’s stranglehold on insulin

#203

Post by edge17 » Mon, Jun 28, 2021, 8:20 PM UTC

nceqs3 wrote: post #78

clarkrinker wrote: post #38

Every time this stuff comes up it feels like we focus on the politics and not the people with diabetes. If you or your kid or your friends have Type 1 and are struggling to make your insulin out of pockets please, please, please call the Eli Lily hotline and get the copay card. They've dropped the monthly cost for Humalog to $35. Don't ration. Work the system. https://www.humalog.com/savings-support

Every drug company gives away their drugs for free to people who can't afford it in the US. It's sad that not enough people take advantage of patient assistance programs.

I'm curious, but what does "can't pay" mean? Does it mean the drug cost 100%+ of your income? 10% of your income?

Re: Biohackers take aim at big pharma’s stranglehold on insulin

#204

Post by RHSeeger » Mon, Jun 28, 2021, 8:23 PM UTC

icelancer wrote: post #136

HideousKojima wrote: post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If that's actually the case that puts all the "You're literally killing us with expensive insulin prices" people in a very negative light. At best they're ill-informed, at worst they're being intentionally deceptive to achieve political aims.

It's the same with basically every other campaign that wants to grab headlines. It literally makes no sense that insulin prices are killing people and it's unavailable, and a basic amount of research shows that yeah indeed, it's clickbait intended to hook you into a more complex discussion. I pay zero attention to people and news sources that repeat that behavior more than once. Lead with the truth.

You are a prime example of WHY that lie is bad. The discussion they are trying to drag you into is an important one, and well worth having. However, by starting out with a lie, they are driving you away before they can even start the conversation with you about it. A conversation where you might agree with them.

Re: Biohackers take aim at big pharma’s stranglehold on insulin

#205

Post by Thebroser » Mon, Jun 28, 2021, 8:25 PM UTC

nom wrote: post #173

Can someone explain in layman's terms why there is no competition on this market? As insulin is so cheap to produce, why can't I just get my own product approved and sell it?

There are crazy patents throughout the entirety of the insulin production pipeline. Some of these being extremely absurd such as patenting the pH of a buffer for specific protocols! I volunteer for the Open Insulin Foundation on/off when not too focused on my research project and it's basically how can we come up with a roadmap to making this decentralized insulin without violating any existing patents. An added layer of difficulty is like other have mentioned, engineering Ecoli to produce the homolog as well as developing from scratch the devices for extraction and purification (think hplc). Again, these need to be made from scratch as to not violate any patents. At least in the U.S., this is why there is no competition in the market. There is also a significant price barrier as you need to bring up your production to GMP standards which means you need a state of the art clean room and multiple roles to supervise the production of the product every step of the way.

Re: Biohackers take aim at big pharma’s stranglehold on insulin

#206

Post by km3k » Mon, Jun 28, 2021, 8:27 PM UTC

edge17 wrote: post #203

nceqs3 wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Every drug company gives away their drugs for free to people who can't afford it in the US. It's sad that not enough people take advantage of patient assistance programs.

I'm curious, but what does "can't pay" mean? Does it mean the drug cost 100%+ of your income? 10% of your income?

Hard to say, but many drugs can go over 100%. Some could be several hundred percent or more depending on your income. https://www.reuters.com/article/us-vertex-pharms-fda/vertex-...

Re: Biohackers take aim at big pharma’s stranglehold on insulin

#207

Post by epmaybe » Mon, Jun 28, 2021, 8:29 PM UTC

nceqs3 wrote: post #78

clarkrinker wrote: post #38

Every time this stuff comes up it feels like we focus on the politics and not the people with diabetes. If you or your kid or your friends have Type 1 and are struggling to make your insulin out of pockets please, please, please call the Eli Lily hotline and get the copay card. They've dropped the monthly cost for Humalog to $35. Don't ration. Work the system. https://www.humalog.com/savings-support

Every drug company gives away their drugs for free to people who can't afford it in the US. It's sad that not enough people take advantage of patient assistance programs.

This is apologist thinking at best, intentionally misleading at worst.

You are correct that companies do have patient assistance programs. What you’re leaving out is that this applies to a small subset of people that usually have to be denied federal/state insurance, not have any other kind of insurance, and make less than 4x federal poverty level.

additionally, they rarely provide a lifelong supply. Imagine being a diabetic and novo nordisk, who makes most of the insulin types on the market, only gives you a four month supply.

Oh wait, thats exactly the terms of their patient assistance program.

Re: Biohackers take aim at big pharma’s stranglehold on insulin

#208

Post by luffapi » Mon, Jun 28, 2021, 8:30 PM UTC

wwweston wrote: post #197

luffapi wrote: post #165

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Health insurance is a commercial industry. There is absolutely nothing socialized about it. The CEOs of these companies are getting paid tens of millions of dollars. They are INCs. They are not socialized in any way shape or form. They do have regulatory capture, mostly given to them by the Democratic Party.

> Health insurance is a commercial industry. I can't tell whether you're saying "Health insurance in the US is a commercial industry right now" or "there's no such thing as health insurance that is not commercial." The latter statement is not true. Medicare for all would be socialized insurance, as would any single payer plan. There are other kinds of socialized insurance you can find in other countries. The former s…

> Again, you're welcome to lay out your model of how the democrats are responsible.

Simple, prior to the ACA I was able to cover my health expenses out of pocket. I’m healthy and literally went to the doctor 3 times in a decade. After being forced by the ACA to buy unneeded and unwanted health insurance, I ended up paying >10k /year for literally nothing.

I’ve since paid so much in health insurance that I could have covered my own cancer treatments, out of pocket. I have received nothing for that $100,000+ dollars.

Add to that the “marketplace” with limited time windows, limited competition, the inability to get insurance from another location…

These were all Democrat initiatives that I lived through.

Then, twice the Democratic Party fought tooth and nail to kill M4A. Biden literally said he would never implement it. I’m no fan of the GOP, but when it comes to healthcare costs, no one is worse than the Dems.

Re: Biohackers take aim at big pharma’s stranglehold on insulin

#209

Post by crakenzak » Mon, Jun 28, 2021, 8:31 PM UTC

gentleman11 wrote: post #56

ChefboyOG wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's nothing ridiculous about the fact that your wife enjoys baking bread. There's a lot that's ridiculous about bread being so expensive that recreating the entire supply chain in your backyard is the only economically viable option for obtaining it. The metaphor pretty clearly was not about critiquing baking as a hobby.

It’s clearly about mocking decentralized home made solutions to problems, and of the people who opt for that approach. It’s an insult to every Amish person on earth and to home mechanics who shy away from garages. It’s also, by far, the most downvoted thing I’ve ever posted so thanks for using your other accounts to hit me for my acidic and savagely inappropriate comment

It’s clear from your responses that you seriously can’t handle logical disagreements to your point on online forums and choose to get offended instead.

The replying comment is right, it’s irrational & you’re filled with hubris to think that you could replicate world wide supply chains in your back yard. In no universe does growing yeast == replicating a global supply chain.

Re: Biohackers take aim at big pharma’s stranglehold on insulin

#210

Post by burkaman » Mon, Jun 28, 2021, 8:33 PM UTC

RHSeeger wrote: post #199

burkaman wrote: post #190

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, why did they choose not to take it? Try to empathize with these people. Why did they do something so dangerous? Then follow it one step further. In the case of those that died, why did they die? What factors contributed to their death? If the price of insulin had been lower, and everything else was the same, would they have died? I would argue these two statements are equivalent: - My patient was killed by the h…

They are two different, but related, things. There are people who die early because they eat extremely poorly; lots of fats and sugars. 1. If the fatty and sugary foods were too expensive for them to buy, they would not have died from those things. 2. They did not die because fatty/sugary foods weren't expensive. They died because they chose to eat fatty/sugary foods. [1] Just because X (good insulin being cheaper) w…

Ok, I guess that's the core of our disagreement. I do believe that "X prevents Y" means " causes Y". Thanks for the discussion.