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Biohackers take aim at big pharma’s stranglehold on insulin

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Re: Biohackers take aim at big pharma’s stranglehold on insulin

#171

Post by bko »

HarryHirsch wrote: post #9

Insulin is a solved problem, in first-world countries the sale price is fixed and there's public healthcare. But in America you are supposed to take "personal responsibility" for your own health and biohack your way ouf of type 1 diabetes?! Srsly? This s a political, not a scientific problem. Call your congresscritter.

Price controls don't work. This is a solved problem and understood by nearly all economists. They lead to over/under production, huge waste, less efficiency and regulatory capture.

The question is why no one is calling for price controls for other products that are produced in a relatively free market. Then ask yourself whats different about the market for insulin that prevents price competition.

Using "fixed" prices to control costs is like using "fixed" thermostat readings to control global warming.

Re: Biohackers take aim at big pharma’s stranglehold on insulin

#172

Post by mikepurvis »

nceqs3 wrote: post #166
arcticbull wrote: post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Luckily people can, and corporations are people. That is to say, corporations can donate to PACs and PACs can donate to candidates.

not true. PACs cannot donate more than a pretty low limit to candidates.

The whole point of a PAC is that they don't donate to the campaigns directly, but rather exercise their free speech to supply the public with "information" about the candidates.

Re: Biohackers take aim at big pharma’s stranglehold on insulin

#174

Post by JumpCrisscross »

pope_meat wrote: post #29
deeviant wrote: post #6

I really wish this would be a higher priority for the current class of billionaire philanthropists: open source science. Medical research guided by the idea of preventing disease rather than creating expensive life-long treatments, and prioritizing the diseases that cause the most amount of suffering rather than present the best opportunity for profit. And not just medicine, but just about any industry could benefit.

Wall Street Smart Genius types have long held that curing disease is bad business, managing symptoms over the entire lifetime allows them to extract more capital out of the cattle. So, if you're looking to cure something you're going to struggle to find funding. Don't worry though, the economy will survive.

> Wall Street Smart Genius types have long held that curing disease is bad business, managing symptoms over the entire lifetime allows them to extract more capital out of the cattle

Nobody tell the multibillion dollar biotech industry…

And in case it needs to be pointed out, no, cures are massively profitable. If someone has a cure for a presently untreatable disease you will get money, you will make money, everyone will make more money and everyone will be better off.

Re: Biohackers take aim at big pharma’s stranglehold on insulin

#175

Post by sparrish »

sithlord wrote: post #27
sparrish wrote: post #8

This is bogus. Wal-mart sells insulin for $24.88 a vial without prescription currently. It's only the newer 'guchi' insulin brands that are crazy expensive. Stuff from 1996 that is compared to in this article is actually cheaper than it was in 1996 (adjusted for inflation).

This is so incredibly wrong - and trying to claim something you know obviously nothing about is hilarious. The different between NPH (regular insulin) (maybe R too, not sure??) sold by walmart and Fast Acting insulins (Novolog, Humalog, Apidra) is massive. Fast acting insulins start working at about in about 30 minutes and "peak" at like 2 hours, and may slowly have some effects for another 1-2 hours. NPH on the othe…

I do know what I'm talking about. Also diabetic.

Yes, there are different insulins and Novolin is an intermediate-acting insulin like you describe and available at those prices.

Re: Biohackers take aim at big pharma’s stranglehold on insulin

#176

Post by sparrish »

burkaman wrote: post #11
sparrish wrote: post #8

This is bogus. Wal-mart sells insulin for $24.88 a vial without prescription currently. It's only the newer 'guchi' insulin brands that are crazy expensive. Stuff from 1996 that is compared to in this article is actually cheaper than it was in 1996 (adjusted for inflation).

It's not branding, the newer insulin is significantly different and better for almost every patient. https://diabetesstrong.com/walmart-insulin/ It's likely not what your doctor prescribed, it doesn't last as long, it requires you (or your young children) to eat on a very specific schedule, it can't be used with an insulin pen or insulin pump, it's just all around a worse and less effective treatment.

Novolin is available as an insulin pen. I use it twice-a-day and it's available at the prices specified.

Re: Biohackers take aim at big pharma’s stranglehold on insulin

#177

Post by dv_dt »

HideousKojima wrote: post #115
RHSeeger wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It’s fast acting, and varies in how it reacts in the body. I believe they offer R (short acting / 2-5h), N (medium), and L (long acting / 24h). The problem with the older insulins isn't so much that they're faster, it's that they're less "specific" (from my experience). A newer short acting insulin (Apidpra, etc) has a spike in the 15-30 minute range and the spike is steep and the tail (while up to 5 hours) is low.…

If that's actually the case that puts all the "You're literally killing us with expensive insulin prices" people in a very negative light. At best they're ill-informed, at worst they're being intentionally deceptive to achieve political aims.

The people who can least afford healthcare also have the most external constraints on their work and life, making it the most difficult to make good, non-harmful use of older insulin in the long term.

There are plenty of cases of people literally dying because of difficulty managing insulin due to cost. It’s nice to say other low cost forms are available while handwaving away actual deaths as well as accumulative long term damage from difficult insulin management.

https://khn.org/news/insulins-high-cost-leads-to-deadly-rati...

Many of the “newer” forms are 20+ years old, and are also extremely low cost to produce.

Re: Biohackers take aim at big pharma’s stranglehold on insulin

#178

Post by sparrish »

foxyv wrote: post #14
sparrish wrote: post #8

This is bogus. Wal-mart sells insulin for $24.88 a vial without prescription currently. It's only the newer 'guchi' insulin brands that are crazy expensive. Stuff from 1996 that is compared to in this article is actually cheaper than it was in 1996 (adjusted for inflation).

The hard part is getting doctors to offer prescriptions for the cheaper brands as an alternative. A lot of doctors will prescribe the most expensive drug simply because they believe or know that it is better in some way without regard to it's cost. It's changed a lot recently as doctors have become more aware of the cost of these drugs. But you still have to self advocate for less expensive drugs. Less savvy people o…

But you don't need a prescription...

Re: Biohackers take aim at big pharma’s stranglehold on insulin

#179

Post by myelin »

pimeys wrote: post #121
giles7777 wrote: post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Have you tried low-carb eating? I've been doing it for years and it seems to be an easier method then insulin(type2 borderline when I started, so not exactly the same).

When you eat lots of fat and protein as a T1, you just get a slowly rising glucose that needs insulin and is harder to control compared to carbs with less fat. T1 is really complex even with a low carb diet, if you don't only eat vegetables, but meatier food.

Yeah, T1 is pretty much just a pain whatever you do. Low carb does make it quite a bit easier, and I imagine would pretty much be the only safe way to eat if you were using a non-rapid insulin.

Unfortunately (doctor's orders) I also have to cut back on the cholesterol, which seems to be very high in all my favorite low-carb foods :( It's a constant experiment; it may turn out to make more sense to eat more fat but take statins, but I need to wait a bit longer and see how my lipids look with the current diet.

(BTW I'm actually doing fine -- pretty decent control/A1C -- but I had to rant in response to the Walmart insulin suggestion above!)

Re: Biohackers take aim at big pharma’s stranglehold on insulin

#180

Post by tsimionescu »

bko wrote: post #171
HarryHirsch wrote: post #9

Insulin is a solved problem, in first-world countries the sale price is fixed and there's public healthcare. But in America you are supposed to take "personal responsibility" for your own health and biohack your way ouf of type 1 diabetes?! Srsly? This s a political, not a scientific problem. Call your congresscritter.

Price controls don't work. This is a solved problem and understood by nearly all economists. They lead to over/under production, huge waste, less efficiency and regulatory capture. The question is why no one is calling for price controls for other products that are produced in a relatively free market. Then ask yourself whats different about the market for insulin that prevents price competition. Using "fixed" prices…

The way price controls are achieved for medicine in the first world is through negotiation between the state public Healthcare system and pharma companies. This actually, provably works, and has worked for decades, and is much more efficient than in the US in fact - both in terms of healthcare outcomes, and Healthcare costs.
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