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Biohackers take aim at big pharma’s stranglehold on insulin

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Re: Biohackers take aim at big pharma’s stranglehold on insulin

#141

Post by cde-v »

oceanplexian wrote: post #129
a3n wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Call your congresscritter. Sorry, but regular people don't make "campaign contributions" of any noticable size, so all we get back is a form letter acknowledgement based on whatever box you checked for subject. Big Pharma, Big X and Big Y, on the other hand, "donate" enough "campaign contributions" that the campaigner can all but ensure (re) election based on recent name recognition to get the nomination, then coun…

Respectfully disagree. I live in a smaller US state and I’ve emailed my representatives and received a personal reply from both of them. One actually engaged and we politely discussed a public policy issue back and forth in an email thread. More often than not you can walk right into their office and meet them if you’d like.

I'm sure your nice discussion held as much sway with them as hundreds of thousands of dollars of "donations".

Re: Biohackers take aim at big pharma’s stranglehold on insulin

#142

Post by RHSeeger »

pimeys wrote: post #135
HideousKojima wrote: post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If that's actually the case that puts all the "You're literally killing us with expensive insulin prices" people in a very negative light. At best they're ill-informed, at worst they're being intentionally deceptive to achieve political aims.

I have to ask, are you suffering from a Type 1 diabetes? If not, at least for me, this answer kind of misses the point completely. Type 1 is a hell to manage. It is REALLY hard. Like I actually use an open source pancreas to control my glucose levels so now I can sleep every night without having to worry about dying. This is in Europe where the insurance covers everything and prices are cheaper than in US. Using the…

I do have type 1 diabetes, and I lived on R/L for over a decade. The point being made here is

> The high price of tier 1 insulins is killing people

Is (more or less) a lie. While

> The high price of tier 1 insulins is making people's lives considerably worse and their diabetes harder to manage.

Is (more or less) true.

When you try to push for change and use, as part of your argument, a lie, you sabotage yourself. People can point at what you're saying and, ignoring the validity of what you're trying to achieve, say "you're lying". That's bad.

The truth is that there are good reasons why tier 1 insulins should not cost as much as they do, not by a long shot. And destroying your own progress towards changing things is counter productive. Just don't do it.

Re: Biohackers take aim at big pharma’s stranglehold on insulin

#143

Post by lotsofpulp »

nceqs3 wrote: post #112
lotsofpulp wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is not strange, but it also contradicts claims about managed care organizations earning tons of money. It is not a business you go into to get super rich.

LMFAO. Express Scripts (the biggest PBM) was bought for 67 billion! They have never saved a patient life but are bigger than most pharma companies.

That sounds irrelevant to my point that MCOs do not make a lot of profit.

Re: Biohackers take aim at big pharma’s stranglehold on insulin

#144

Post by ska »

HideousKojima wrote: post #115
RHSeeger wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It’s fast acting, and varies in how it reacts in the body. I believe they offer R (short acting / 2-5h), N (medium), and L (long acting / 24h). The problem with the older insulins isn't so much that they're faster, it's that they're less "specific" (from my experience). A newer short acting insulin (Apidpra, etc) has a spike in the 15-30 minute range and the spike is steep and the tail (while up to 5 hours) is low.…

If that's actually the case that puts all the "You're literally killing us with expensive insulin prices" people in a very negative light. At best they're ill-informed, at worst they're being intentionally deceptive to achieve political aims.

How cheap is the cheap option?

I found some references for "old" versions that claim price increase from $17 in 1997 to $138 today, another from $21 to $255.

Going by inflation only those would be around $30-40.

I don't know how much a typical diabetic needs per month (I imagine it varies) but I could see that being a problem for a lot of people if that is, say a monthly supply.

Re: Biohackers take aim at big pharma’s stranglehold on insulin

#145

Post by relax88 »

a3n wrote: post #79
HarryHirsch wrote: post #9

Insulin is a solved problem, in first-world countries the sale price is fixed and there's public healthcare. But in America you are supposed to take "personal responsibility" for your own health and biohack your way ouf of type 1 diabetes?! Srsly? This s a political, not a scientific problem. Call your congresscritter.

> Call your congresscritter. Sorry, but regular people don't make "campaign contributions" of any noticable size, so all we get back is a form letter acknowledgement based on whatever box you checked for subject. Big Pharma, Big X and Big Y, on the other hand, "donate" enough "campaign contributions" that the campaigner can all but ensure (re) election based on recent name recognition to get the nomination, then coun…

Well maybe it’s time to start protesting?

What always amazes me is how much this is tolerated in the “Land of the free”. At what point do Americans stand up for democratic principles?

This pathetic “we can’t do anything” attitude will be how democracy dies.

If my electoral district was gerrymandered or corporate donations through PACs we’re allowed in Canada I would be planning protests instead of typing this. Our system is far from perfect, but I have a hard time imagining a scenario in which the public here would passively accept many of the things we can see to the South.

Why is there so much apathy towards these issues?

Shouldn’t the fairness of the democratic system in the US be the #1 issue for both Democrats and Republicans?

Re: Biohackers take aim at big pharma’s stranglehold on insulin

#146

Post by wwweston »

luffapi wrote: post #126
wwweston wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's people in at least one party who talk about problems like this, and given that party is the only one that has taken any kind of health care policy seriously for longer than the lifetime of this forum, and has at least some modest achievement to show for it during the narrow window they've had essential control of national institutions, there's reason to take that at face value. And while various poll access r…

Are you talking about the Democratic Party? They are more responsible for the extreme cost of healthcare in the US than any other political faction. Mandatory insurance, COBRA payouts… Did you know Gretchen Whitmer’s dad was the CEO of BlueCross? I say this as a leftist: the Democratic Party is the party of the health industrial complex. https://www.jacobinmag.com/2021/01/joe-biden-public-option-h...

> They are more responsible for the extreme cost of healthcare in the US than any other political faction

I await the explanation of your model revealing the drivers of healthcare costs and connecting them to predominately Dem responsibility with baited breath, nigh weeping for hope of policy-capable leftists in the meanwhile.

> Mandatory insurance

You know that's how socialized insurance works at one level or another, right?

> COBRA payouts

Is this a mantra or a point?

> Did you know Gretchen Whitmer’s dad was the CEO of BlueCross?

This is definitely not a point.

> the party of the health industrial complex.

As long as we consider approach healthcare primarily as an industry, yeah, there's going to be industrial interests tangled up with it. Should we do it some other way? Maybe. In which party do you think that conversation is even possible?

Re: Biohackers take aim at big pharma’s stranglehold on insulin

#147

Post by sremani »

luffapi wrote: post #126
wwweston wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's people in at least one party who talk about problems like this, and given that party is the only one that has taken any kind of health care policy seriously for longer than the lifetime of this forum, and has at least some modest achievement to show for it during the narrow window they've had essential control of national institutions, there's reason to take that at face value. And while various poll access r…

Are you talking about the Democratic Party? They are more responsible for the extreme cost of healthcare in the US than any other political faction. Mandatory insurance, COBRA payouts… Did you know Gretchen Whitmer’s dad was the CEO of BlueCross? I say this as a leftist: the Democratic Party is the party of the health industrial complex. https://www.jacobinmag.com/2021/01/joe-biden-public-option-h...

Look at the Health insurance stock after Obamacare was passed - they all sky rocketed.

Re: Biohackers take aim at big pharma’s stranglehold on insulin

#148

Post by KittenInABox »

HideousKojima wrote: post #115
RHSeeger wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It’s fast acting, and varies in how it reacts in the body. I believe they offer R (short acting / 2-5h), N (medium), and L (long acting / 24h). The problem with the older insulins isn't so much that they're faster, it's that they're less "specific" (from my experience). A newer short acting insulin (Apidpra, etc) has a spike in the 15-30 minute range and the spike is steep and the tail (while up to 5 hours) is low.…

If that's actually the case that puts all the "You're literally killing us with expensive insulin prices" people in a very negative light. At best they're ill-informed, at worst they're being intentionally deceptive to achieve political aims.

It's extremely hard to manage your health with old insulins because they're so much less precise. Imagine if you were programming but your keyboard works such that any key you type might be +3/-3 key presses actually. Except in the case of diabetes, this results in the loss of body parts and blindness.

Re: Biohackers take aim at big pharma’s stranglehold on insulin

#149

Post by nimish »

lotsofpulp wrote: post #98
nceqs3 wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is not true and just an industry talking point from the PBMs. They use revenue tricks to hide their profit margin. See https://www.fiercehealthcare.com/payer/facing-criticism-pbms...

My information is from 10-K filings with SEC, and my statement is referring to net profit margins, which are what they are. Unless there is massive fraud going on, managed care organizations are not earning massive profits. If their PBM divisions are, then they are simply subsidizing the insurance division, but it would make no difference to people. The total expense for premium plus out of pocket expenses would not…

> Unless there is massive fraud going on

That is exactly what is happening, and it's legal. It's very easy to hide profits and move them around.

Re: Biohackers take aim at big pharma’s stranglehold on insulin

#150

Post by luffapi »

wwweston wrote: post #146
luffapi wrote: post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you talking about the Democratic Party? They are more responsible for the extreme cost of healthcare in the US than any other political faction. Mandatory insurance, COBRA payouts… Did you know Gretchen Whitmer’s dad was the CEO of BlueCross? I say this as a leftist: the Democratic Party is the party of the health industrial complex. https://www.jacobinmag.com/2021/01/joe-biden-public-option-h...

> They are more responsible for the extreme cost of healthcare in the US than any other political faction I await the explanation of your model revealing the drivers of healthcare costs and connecting them to predominately Dem responsibility with baited breath, nigh weeping for hope of policy-capable leftists in the meanwhile. > Mandatory insurance You know that's how socialized insurance works at one level or anothe…

What on earth is “socialized insurance”?

The Democrats are the party who put massive amounts of effort into derailing the only viable candidate to argue for public healthcare.

Maybe you don’t care about keeping predatory insurance companies afloat with COBRA payouts, or forcing healthy people to pay tens of thousands of dollars to insurance companies, but plenty of people do.

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